Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:41 pm
:::waiting to see if any of our more legalistic minds want to take on the challenge of figuring out the rabbinic answer:::
Official Discussion Forum for the works of Stephen R. Donaldson
https://kevinswatch.com/phpBB3/
Oh bravo, well said Plissken! The traditional response would be 'ask your rav' since rabbis so often interpret law differently. Which is why I was surprised both my rabbi and my sister's rabbi gave the same answer.Plissken wrote:There's nothing I've ever heard about rabbinical answers that would lead me to believe that I could tell you what your rabbi said, even if I were a rabbi!
(Regardless, I will humbly await the answer to this one. It's interesting.)
LOL!dlbpharmd wrote:All I know is I'm confused as hell. There are more unfamiliar words in this thread than a Donaldson story.
Attacks against Jews and Jewish institutions across the U.S. and the globe has brought the issue of antisemitism into sharp focus. "Antisemitism, Explained" is a six-part video series that digs into the historical roots of antisemitism and how it affects Jewish identity and global events. Written by award-winning journalist Yair Rosenberg, the series explores how to identify antisemitic threats that are outside our control, and inspires the confidence to stand up against them.
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Why is Antisemitism Still Around? | Antisemitism, Explained | Unpacked [YouTube: 7 min]
=========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================Why is it that even post-Holocaust, Jews experience a large percentage of the world’s hate crimes, despite being less than 0.2% of the world’s population? That’s because the Holocaust wasn’t an antisemitic exception — it was the culmination of years of religious, scientific, cultural and political anti-Jewish sentiment. This foundation still exists today. Many still subscribe to anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, resulting in disproportionately high statistics of anti-Jewish sentiment and large numbers of hate crimes.
Beyond Left or Right: Whose Fault is Antisemitism? | Antisemitism, Explained | Unpacked [YouTube: 8 min]
=========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================While the Holocaust may be over, antisemitism is still very much alive. So, whose fault is it? And how do we address it? The sad truth is that antisemitism has always been spread by offenders across the ideological spectrum. That's why it is key to focus on the fighting antisemitic ideas and not get hung up on the identities of whoever is perpetuating them. When we learn to rebuke anti-Jewish bigotry no matter who spreads it, we will be one step closer to defeating it.
Is Criticizing Israel Antisemitic? | Antisemitism, Explained | Unpacked [YouTube: 9 min]
=========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================Is criticizing Israel anti-Jewish? Not necessarily. Israel — like all countries — is, and should be, subject to political criticism over its conduct. However, in many places where it is unacceptable to openly hate Jews, it is respectable to criticize the Jewish state, and so some bigots will say their problem is with Israel, when their real problem is with Jews. Here's how to tell the difference between the good faith critics and the bad faith bigots.
Do Jews Cause Antisemitism? | Antisemitism, Explained | Unpacked [YouTube: 7 min]
=========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================It may sound bizarre, but a shockingly large number of people believe that Jews cause themselves to be hated. For centuries, bigots have blamed racial, religious, and sexual minorities for their own persecution. If we're going to beat back antisemitism, we'll need to understand why this claim is so egregiously wrong — logically, historically, and morally.
Can Jews Be Antisemitic? | Antisemitism, Explained | Unpacked [YouTube: 6 min]
=========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================When a Jewish person expresses anti-Jewish ideas, is that antisemitism? It might sound odd, but yes. From the Middle Ages until the present day, there are plenty of examples of Jewish people perpetuating antisemitism, despite being Jews themselves. Sometimes it is what scholars call “internalized racism,” which is something that many minorities, including Jews, have experienced. Other times, Jews attempt to separate themselves from other Jews as a defense mechanism. But whatever the reason behind it, antisemitism from Jewish people is no more acceptable than antisemitism from non-Jewish people.
Is the Focus on Antisemitism Overblown? | Antisemitism, Explained | Unpacked [YouTube: 4 min]
With Jews making up a mere 0.2% of the world’s population, one might reasonably wonder, “Why should we give antisemitism so much attention?” But as professor Walter Russell Mead explains, “Societies that tolerate antisemitism … take a fateful step towards the loss of both freedom and prosperity.” History has shown that societies suffer where antisemitism is prevalent. When the focus is on blaming the Jews, the real causes of society's problems go overlooked. This makes antisemitism more than just a problem for the Jews, but actually something we all should be concerned about.
Ronny Hartmann / AFP / Getty
Unlike many other bigotries, anti-Semitism is not merely a social prejudice; it is a conspiracy theory about how the world operates.
Most people do not realize that Jews make up just 2 percent of the U.S. population and 0.2 percent of the world’s population. This means simply finding them takes a lot of effort. But every year in Western countries, including America, Jews are the No. 1 target of anti-religious hate crimes. Anti-Semites are many things, but they aren’t lazy. They’re animated by one of the most durable and deadly conspiracy theories in human history.
[…]
After [Faisal] Akram pulled a gun on the congregation [of Beth Israel in Colleyville, TX last January] he demanded to speak to the rabbi of New York’s Central Synagogue, who he claimed could authorize the release of Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani woman serving an attempted murder sentence in a Fort Worth facility near Beth Israel.
Obviously, this is not how the prison system works. “This was somebody who literally thought that Jews control the world,” Beth Israel Rabbi Charlie Cytron-Walker told The Forward. “He thought he could come into a synagogue, and we could get on the phone with the ‘Chief Rabbi of America’ and he would get what he needed.”
I happen to know Angela Buchdahl, the rabbi of that New York synagogue, and I think she would make an excellent chief rabbi of America. But no such position exists. Jews are a famously fractious lot who can rarely agree on anything, let alone their religious leadership. We do not spend our days huddled in smoke-filled rooms plotting world domination while Jared Kushner plays dreidel in the back with Noam Chomsky and George Soros sneaks the last latke.
The notion that such a minuscule and unmanageable minority secretly controls the world is comical, which may be why so many responsible people still do not take the anti-Semitic conspiracy theory seriously, or even understand how it works. In the moments after the Texas crisis, the FBI made an official statement declaring that the assailant was “particularly focused on one issue, and it was not specifically related to the Jewish community.” Of course, the gunman did not travel thousands of miles to terrorize some Mormons. He sought out a synagogue and took it hostage over his grievances, believing that Jews alone could resolve them. That’s targeting Jews, and there’s a word for that.
The FBI later corrected its misstep, but the episode reflects the general ignorance about anti-Semitism even among people of goodwill. Unlike many other bigotries, anti-Semitism is not merely a social prejudice; it is a conspiracy theory about how the world operates. This addled outlook is what united the Texas gunman, a Muslim, with the 2018 shooter at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue, a white supremacist who sought to stanch the flow of Muslims into America. It is a worldview shared by Louis Farrakhan, the Black hate preacher, and David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard. And it is a political orientation that has been expressed by the self-styled Christian conservative leader of Hungary, Viktor Orbán, and Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran’s Islamic theocracy.
The fevered fantasy of Jewish domination is incredibly malleable, which makes it incredibly attractive. If Jews are responsible for every perceived problem, then people with entirely opposite ideals can adopt it. And thanks to centuries of material blaming the world’s ills on the world’s Jews, conspiracy theorists seeking a scapegoat for their sorrows inevitably discover that the invisible hand of their oppressor belongs to an invisible Jew.
At the same time, because this expression of anti-Jewish prejudice is so different from other forms of bigotry, many people don’t recognize it. As in Texas, law-enforcement officials overlook it. Social-media companies ignore it. Anti-racism activists — who understand racism as prejudice wielded by the powerful — cannot grasp it, because anti-Semitism constructs its Jewish targets as the privileged and powerful. And political partisans, more concerned with pinning the problem on their opponents, spend their time parsing the identity of anti-Semitic individuals, rather than countering the ideas that animate them.
In short, although many people say they are against anti-Semitism today, they don’t understand the nature of what they oppose. And that’s part of why anti-Semitism abides.
This ignorant status quo has proved deadly for Jews, and that alone should be enough for our society to take it seriously. But it has disastrous consequences for non-Jews as well. This is because people who embrace conspiracy theories to explain their problems lose the ability to rationally solve them. As Bard College’s Walter Russell Mead has put it:
[…]People who think “the Jews” run the banks lose the ability to understand, much less to operate financial systems. People who think “the Jews” dominate business through hidden structures can’t build or long maintain a successful modern economy. People who think “the Jews” dominate politics lose their ability to interpret political events, to diagnose social evils and to organize effectively for positive change.
“Anti-Semitism isn’t just bigotry toward the Jewish community,” Ward explains. “It is actually utilizing bigotry toward the Jewish community in order to deconstruct democratic practices, and it does so by framing democracy as a conspiracy rather than a tool of empowerment or a functional tool of governance.” In other words, the more people buy into anti-Semitism and its understanding of the world, the more they lose faith in democracy.
Numerous historical case studies attest to anti-Semitism undermining its adherents at a large scale, from the defeat of the Nazis, who spurned scientific advances simply because they were discovered by Jews, to European countries that hobbled themselves for centuries by expelling their Jewish populations.
“The rise of anti-Semitism is a sign of widespread social and cultural failure,” Mead writes. “It is a leading indicator of a loss of faith in liberal values and of a diminished capacity to understand the modern world and to thrive in it.”
Seen in this light, one attack on one synagogue is not just a hate-crime statistic. It is also a warning. The mindset of a madman in Texas might seem alien to us today. But if we do not find a way to confront the conspiratorial currents that threaten to overtake our society, we may find ourselves hostage to the very ideas that animated him.
Yeah, this is the thing that bugs me...it's like many people see any criticism of the Israeli government as being antisemitic by default.Holsety wrote:I I think that's unrealistic...
Ya, tell me about it, the Jewish religion is pretty fascinating IMO. Never got a handle on the understanding of the language though, at least not past the alphabet (and I don't know the cursive at all) and pronunciation. But I do like the way the writing looks.Avatar wrote:Yeah, this is the thing that bugs me...it's like many people see any criticism of the Israeli government as being antisemitic by default.Holsety wrote:I I think that's unrealistic...
It's like, "I can criticise your domestic policies without hating your religion dude..."
--A
Oh ya, I also wanted to say, when I was in college, one of my professors kind of downplayed Shylock in the The Merchant of Venice, saying that he's not really the most interesting part of the play, and that actually, it's a homoerotic relationship between two of the male leads (I don't remember their names) and the female lead's role in saving one of them and marrying the other that's really the interesting part of the play. However, he said that in the Jew of Malta, even though the titular Jew is totally villainous, even cartoonishly so, that he's really the one everyone in England was rooting for because it takes place in a foreign setting and they want pretty much everyone in the play dead. And that they like all the over the top stuff he does to torment the other characters. Personally, I don't remember enough to have my own opinion on the latter, but I still think Shylock is interesting.I remember once reading an article or seeing a video of a german criticizing a german jew angrily saying that "we couldn't even extinguish palestine" or something like that, as though the person's real problem is that we DON'T kill enough nonjews.
Oh, and regarding this, I have no answer that I figured out myself, but I do remember that when I was at undergrad, there was a student who once sat with our group of friends and mentioned that there is a supposedly very orthodox sect of jews who are anti-israel and went to a hate conference against jews in Iran. Their argument is that Israel does not have the messiah's backing and is not the true jewish state, that Israel is supposed to be revived when the messiah comes. I also read an argument online in response to this argument that there is not a lot to say about the messiah in scripture and that it is possible that the messiah returned, was a prominent member in the jewish movement to retake Israel, and is either still alive (though quite old at this time) or passed away sometime after Israel was secured. As for me, I'm not even particularly religious, I'm just presenting what may be something like religious gossip. I don't offer it to be meanspirited, personally I think Israel is partially legitimized by its survival despite the fact that it has a typically violent beginning for a nation, but is not divinely empowered. That might sound a bit tortured of an opinion though.:::waiting to see if any of our more legalistic minds want to take on the challenge of figuring out the rabbinic answer:::
I agree with what you say 100%.Avatar wrote:Yeah, this is the thing that bugs me...it's like many people see any criticism of the Israeli government as being antisemitic by default.
Also — as I attempted to point out through the use of examples in an earlier (and unfortunately now-deleted) post regarding the co-option of Jewry — not only the criticism, but also, the praise of Jews and/or of Israel can function as cover for, and as a vehicle of, Antisemitism.wayfriend wrote:I agree with what you say 100%.Avatar wrote:Yeah, this is the thing that bugs me...it's like many people see any criticism of the Israeli government as being antisemitic by default.
However, that is exactly what every anti-Semite says. (And every racist, and every misogynist, etc.)
[…]
https://youtu.be/vLGK_SHMTEkWosbald wrote:Also — as I attempted to point out through the use of examples in an earlier (and unfortunately now-deleted) post
Hahaha, I sorta agree, because I think I know what you mean, but I'm also sorta struggling with the way it's phrased.wayfriend wrote:So, in a way, one legitimizes their excuses by using the same language that they use.
Integrity demands that one avoids the appearance of impropriety. Therefore, we need a different way to articulate what is that space between valid criticism and anti-Semitic denigration.
A man carries the Israeli flag as he marches across New York’s Brooklyn Bridge Jan. 5, 2020, during the massive No Hate, No Fear March. The U.S. Embassy to the Holy See is sponsoring an online conference on confronting the global rise of anti-Semitism. (Credit: Ed Wilkinson/ The Tablet, via CNS)
NEW YORK — After a man allegedly made antisemitic and racist threats towards people at a Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, synagogue and preschool on Dec. 2, the Archdiocese of Detroit has expressed solidarity with the local Jewish community.
Hassan Yehia Chokr, 35, from Dearborn, Michigan, was charged with two felony counts of ethnic intimidation after he allegedly made antisemitic and racist threats to parents, young children, and security personnel at the Temple Beth El synagogue.
Chokr was taken into custody by the Dearborn Police Department. He was arraigned on Dec. 5, and had his bond set for nearly $1 million. He is expected to return to court in two weeks.
“The Archdiocese of Detroit condemns the anti-Semitic sentiments expressed during a December 2 incident at Temple Beth El in Bloomfield Township,” the archdiocese said in a Dec. 5 statement.
“Under the leadership of Archbishop Allen Vigneron, we reaffirm our commitment to stamping out anti-Semitism, racism, and xenophobia whenever and wherever we see it occuring,” the statement continues. “The Archbishop stands with the Jewish community and encourages other religious and civic leaders to speak out against any kind of attack on our citizens due to their race, religion or culture.”
Temple Beth El Senior Rabbi Mark Miller told the advocacy organization StopAntisemitism that Chokr showed up to the synagogue’s Early Childhood Center in a white van in the morning during drop off time, at which point he began filming and verbally harassing families.
The synagogue’s security team intervened immediately, and after the Bloomfield Township police arrived shortly thereafter he was removed without further incident, according to StopAntisemitism.
[…]
The incident comes amid a recent rise in antisemitism nationwide. Last week, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a lengthy statement condemning antisemitism and calling for Catholics to remain vigilant against it.
[…]
In its statement regarding the recent incident in Bloomfield Hills, the Archdiocese of Detroit added that “as we approach the Christmas and Hanukkah seasons, let us unite in our prayers and action for an increase in peace and goodwill in our society.”
Nick Fuentes, far-right activist, holds a rally at the Lansing Capitol, in Lansing, Mich., Nov. 11, 2020. (Nicole Hester/Ann Arbor News via AP, File)
In the wake of recent antisemitic comments from high-profile cultural figures, the need for ongoing dialogue between Catholics and Jews remains essential, those involved in such conversations say.
In an interview with America, Cardinal Wilton Gregory, the archbishop of Washington and the Catholic co-chair of the National Council of Synagogues consultation for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said that Catholics have an obligation to be well-informed about the news, especially when antisemitic comments or actions are prevalent.
“It’s important that we Catholics stay on top of what’s happening and witness the destructive forces that seem constantly to be erupting in many — too many — places in our nation,” he said.
Antisemitic incidents in the United States in 2021 reached historic levels, the Anti-Defamation League reported earlier this year.
[…]
While anti-Jewish incidents, along with other hate crimes, are on the rise more broadly, some recent high-profile incidents have caught widespread public notice. The musician formerly known as Kanye West recently espoused particularly virulent antisemitic views, expressing admiration for Adolf Hitler and claiming that the Holocaust did not happen. Days before he made those comments, Mr. West dined with former President Donald Trump in Florida, along with Mr. West’s guest at that dinner, the online provocateur Nick Fuentes, a Catholic who regularly expresses antisemitic and white supremacist views.
In October, Brooklyn Nets guard Kyrie Irving shared a link on his Twitter account promoting an antisemitic film, which includes claims that the Holocaust did not happen. Mr. Irving was suspended by the team after initially refusing to apologize or state that he is not antisemitic. He eventually apologized and was reinstated, though just this week Nike announced it had ended its relationship with Mr. Irving.
Cardinal Gregory, who has been archbishop in the nation’s capital since 2019, said Catholic political figures should, “without a doubt,” condemn antisemitic behavior, adding that they “should be outraged and embarrassed and concerned, in their position as leaders, and as Catholics in the public arena.”
The U.S.C.C.B. released a statement condemning antisemitism late last month.
[…]
Though the timing of the statement’s release made it seem like bishops were reacting to the news cycle, “this statement has actually been in the works for quite a while,” Rebecca Cohen, a researcher at the U.S.C.C.B.’s Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, told America. She said the statement was part of a yearslong effort among Catholic bishops to call attention to antisemitism, which includes an emphasis on ongoing dialogue.
Bishops meet twice yearly with Jewish leaders as part of their formal, ongoing dialogue and collaborate more informally as situations arise.
Ms. Cohen said that engaging in this kind of dialogue can, at times, be uncomfortable for Catholics given the church’s history of Jewish persecution. But she said that confronting that history is an essential task.
“We cannot be Christian without understanding our Jewish roots,” she told America. “We cannot be Catholics and promote hate.”
Malka Z. Simkovich chairs the Jewish studies program at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago. She said that Catholics have a unique role in condemning anti-Jewish statements and actions because of the church’s historic role in persecuting Jews.
“The church has already provided Catholics with precedent to do that,” Dr. Simkovich told America, pointing to Nostra Aetate, the Second Vatican Council’s teaching document that condemns antisemitism. “It's very disheartening that there’s still resistance among Catholics to admit to the unique role that the church has had in regards to the suffering of the Jews.”
Catholics who came of age after Vatican II may not as attuned to the the church’s historic antisemitism, which can cause some younger believers to view anti-Jewish hatred as simply one more social ill that needs addressing, Dr. Simkovich said.
“I really resist it when people say, ‘Oh, we have to combat antisemitism because it could lead to other forms of hatred against other minorities,’” she said. “Antisemitism has to be taken on its own as a scourge that needs to be addressed.”
The success of Catholic-Jewish dialogue circles lies in the personal relationships that often develop among participants. Those friendships provide the basis for offering support during particularly painful episodes of antisemitism. But Dr. Simkovich admits that translating the advances made in those smaller conversation circles into wider understanding can be a challenge.
“There’s a huge disparity between what’s happening in these smaller communities of dialogue and what I’m seeing from people in the pews,” she said. “The question is how to bridge this gap between a very small but robust community of Catholic and Jewish scholars and clergy and what’s happening in the broader Catholic community, which tends to be less passionate about combating anti-Judaism.”
But Dr. Simkovich said she remains hopeful.
“I try to be optimistic because I think change is really slow,” Dr. Simkovich said. “We're talking about a generation that’s pushing back against 2,000 years of history, and it’s going to take us a very long time to affect the change that we are impatient to see now.”
The church will mark 60 years since the publication of Nostra Aetate in 2025, which means there are fewer Catholics today who remember a time when Catholic teaching was far less hospitable to Jews and other religious groups than it is today. That means it is especially important for younger Catholics to learn about that history — even if it feels painful.
“We don’t know our own history,” Cardinal Gregory said. “The farther away we get from a terrible moment in history, there are fewer people who have firsthand knowledge of it.”
Future leaders, especially, must educate themselves about past challenges if they want to effectively address contemporary issues, he added.
“We won’t be able to get beyond our history, we won’t be able to get about the job of healing, of reconciliation, if we don’t recognize the causes that drove us apart,” Cardinal Gregory said. “If you don't know what caused the problem, you won’t know why the solutions have to be issued.”
Cardinal Gregory said that while not all Catholics will have the opportunity to engage in projects aimed at dialogue with the Jewish community, they should nonetheless seek to learn about Judaism’s impact on their faith. He pointed to the liturgy and Catholic prayer life as good examples.
“Our Catholic liturgy has a great debt that goes back to the first Christians, including our Lord and Blessed Mother herself: They were Jewish,” he said. “And when they prayed, they prayed in the Jewish context.”
Cardinal Gregory pointed to Pope Francis, who has said that a true Christian cannot be an antisemite. He said he recognized that there are many areas of injustice prevalent in our society, and said Christians should see “them as interrelated hatred.”
“Whether it be directed towards people of color, immigrants, Jews, Muslims, hatred is never acceptable,” the cardinal said.