to which I replied:Darth, in another topic wrote:Vagel was weak... I mean we heard so much about him in the first book, you expected that this guy would own all the bad and good guys. But he sucked, For all the things that we heard of him in the first book, Eremis was the real power in the second book, and in the first as well. Only we never knew that of course. So all the work that people said was Vagels was in fact Eremis'.
You're right about Vagel's diminshed aura when he finally appears--he's older than Havelock right? Maybe debauched from Carmag's lifestyle. I seem to remember that he did make some key contributions. But exactly what--I must review the literature!