Vagel: More Bark than bite?

"Reflect" on Stephen Donaldson's other epic fantasy

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Post by Cord Hurn »

The following scene wasn't funny to me the first time I read the Mordant's Need books, because I was feeling pretty tense about the confrontation happening, and feeling disappointed that Havelock couldn't comprehend Terisa's strategy.

On re-reads, though, I'm always amused by the ridiculousness of Havelock holding a featherduster to kill Vagel, and that action scaring the crap out of the icy arch-Imager! The tension of the overall situation makes this nutty moment seem more humorous. :spew:
In [i]A Man Rides Through[/i] was wrote:Terisa faced Eremis and the arch-Imager alone.

She knew how to fight them: without thinking about it, without planning anything, she knew. She could never break enough of their mirrors to save King Joyse. They would kill her long before she did that much damage. And she would accomplish nothing if she shifted the Image which showed the King's peril. Nevertheless she had glass to oppose Eremis and Vagel with, mirrors at her disposal which they couldn't see. All she had to do was stay alive.

And concentrate--

I want you to trust me.

-concentrate on the flat glass in Havelock's rooms, the mirror with the Image of the sand dune. If she put this scene, this room into that glass, the Adept could see it. He would see it, if he hadn't fallen completely victim to his insanity. And then he could translate both Eremis and Vagel to Orison.

Trust me.

Eremis would lose his mind. And Vagel would be in Orison, with no way back here. He might use one of Havelock's mirrors to avoid capture, but he would cease to be a threat.

All she had to do was concentrate.

She stood still. Instinctively, she raised her hands as if to show Master Eremis she was no longer a threat to his mirrors.

The way he looked at her made her blood labor like sludge in her veins.

To keep himself from being pinned to the wall, Geraden had to retreat toward one of the exits. Apparently hoping to draw Master Gilbur after him, he turned suddenly and fled, running hard down the corridor.

Cunning despite his rage, Master Gilbur stopped. There was no harm Geraden could do anywhere except in this room.

Clutching his dagger, Gilbur returned to the ring.

To the Image in Terisa's mind.

She held it steady, hoping now that Havelock would wait until Master Gilbur came within reach, within range of Eremis' destruction. She had no pity of any kind left in her.

At that moment, a touch of cold as thin as a feather and as sharp as steel slid straight through the center of her abdomen.

"Hee-hee!" a thin voice cackled. "Wait for me, Vagel! I'm coming."

Adept Havelock burst out of the air at a run.

"I'm coming!"

Oh, no!

He was a madman full of glee. His feet seemed to find the stone without any possibility of misstep, as if losing his mind made him immune to all the other hazards of translation. His apron flapped about his ankles as he ran.

As swift as joy, he sped for the arch-Imager.

In both fists he clutched his featherduster as if it made him mighty: a sword or scepter no one could oppose.

That surprised Vagel; it took him too suddenly for any reaction except panic. Once, in the past, Havelock had cost him everything but his life: now the mad Adept wanted his life as well.

Havelock was oblivious to everyone else. He didn't see Terisa. He didn't seem to notice that Master Eremis had stretched out a casual foot to trip him; he was only after the arch-Imager. Vagel, however, had flinched away; he headed for one of the exits with all the speed his old legs could produce.

Veering to follow, the Adept unconsciously avoided Eremis' foot.

"I'm coming!"

One after the other, they disappeared down the corridor, taking Terisa's only hope with them, her only way to fight.
On re-reads this was funnier because I knew it was all going to work out all right, obviously. But the first time I read this, my reaction mirrored Terisa's, as I was thinking, "Oh, $#!+!" 8O
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Cord Hurn wrote:
wayfriend wrote:]I've always had the impression that, despite being an 'adept' with mirrors, he wasn't really a chessmaster sort of bad guy. It was Eremis who made him dangerous, because he harnessed that talent and knew what to do with it.
shadowbinding shoe wrote:He wasn't much of a plotter like Eremis or Havelock. He just had a lot of raw talent that he misused in horrible ways.
I [respectfully] disagree with both these assertions. The above quotes where Vagel is talking to Terisa indicate that its the favorable placement of Eremis and Gilbur to spy on Joyse and Mordant that was their advantage over Vagel, not any superior ability to plot.

And, it's Vagel who makes Eremis dangerous, because without Vagel's precision talent all Eremis' resources and plotting would be just "a blunt instrument", as Vagel says.

The more that I think about this, the more convinced I become that it works both ways. Vagel empowers Eremis, and Eremis empowers Vagel.
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Post by wayfriend »

C'mon. His name rhymes with 'bagel'. Donaldson might as well have named him Shmagel.
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Post by Cord Hurn »

wayfriend wrote:C'mon. His name rhymes with 'bagel'. Donaldson might as well have named him Shmagel.
Really now, bagels can be tough, too! And Smeagol is well known as a dangerous character who ends up deciding the fate of Middle-Earth!!!
I rest my case.
:soapbox: ;)
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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Cord Hurn wrote:
wayfriend wrote:]I've always had the impression that, despite being an 'adept' with mirrors, he wasn't really a chessmaster sort of bad guy. It was Eremis who made him dangerous, because he harnessed that talent and knew what to do with it.
shadowbinding shoe wrote:He wasn't much of a plotter like Eremis or Havelock. He just had a lot of raw talent that he misused in horrible ways.
I [respectfully] disagree with both these assertions. The above quotes where Vagel is talking to Terisa indicate that its the favorable placement of Eremis and Gilbur to spy on Joyse and Mordant that was their advantage over Vagel, not any superior ability to plot.

And, it's Vagel who makes Eremis dangerous, because without Vagel's precision talent all Eremis' resources and plotting would be just "a blunt instrument", as Vagel says.
And yet Vagel doesn't claim he could beat Havelock this time now that he knows his sneaky ways. The plotting and sneakiness are beneath him. He leaves that side to Eremis. Not really disputing what you say cord hurn but still.
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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Regarding the final scene, there's something strange not to say implausible about Vagel being impaled with a featherduster. How? Havelock is great but he's no Schwarzenegger. The only way this could possibly work is if the famous featherduster had a very pointy end beneath those innocuous feathers. How long did Havelock plan this surprise attack?
A little knowledge is still better than no knowledge.
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shadowbinding shoe wrote:
Cord Hurn wrote:
wayfriend wrote:]I've always had the impression that, despite being an 'adept' with mirrors, he wasn't really a chessmaster sort of bad guy. It was Eremis who made him dangerous, because he harnessed that talent and knew what to do with it.
shadowbinding shoe wrote:He wasn't much of a plotter like Eremis or Havelock. He just had a lot of raw talent that he misused in horrible ways.
I [respectfully] disagree with both these assertions. The above quotes where Vagel is talking to Terisa indicate that its the favorable placement of Eremis and Gilbur to spy on Joyse and Mordant that was their advantage over Vagel, not any superior ability to plot.

And, it's Vagel who makes Eremis dangerous, because without Vagel's precision talent all Eremis' resources and plotting would be just "a blunt instrument", as Vagel says.
And yet Vagel doesn't claim he could beat Havelock this time now that he knows his sneaky ways. The plotting and sneakiness are beneath him. He leaves that side to Eremis. Not really disputing what you say cord hurn but still.
Certainly it's true that Vagel never mentions to Terisa how he plans to get Havelock out of the way so that he can torture Joyse. This may be because he's depending on Eremis to come up with a plan, or he thinks Havelock is now too mentally incapacitated to be any threat, or because Vagel just doesn't want to divulge his plans for Havelock. Any of these are possibilities, I think.
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shadowbinding shoe wrote:Regarding the final scene, there's something strange not to say implausible about Vagel being impaled with a featherduster. How? Havelock is great but he's no Schwarzenegger. The only way this could possibly work is if the famous featherduster had a very pointy end beneath those innocuous feathers. How long did Havelock plan this surprise attack?
Vagel actually ends up being impaled with a large tree branch, despite Havelock originally threatening him with that featherduster.

It is one of the great mysteries of the Mordant's Need story, Shadowbinding Shoe: How did Havelock actually kill Vagel? My best guess is that the Adept had one or more of his pocket-sized mirrors with him in his surcoat, and translated a lightning-blast at a tree outside the fortress at just the right angle to kill his old enemy the arch-Imager. Then he dragged Vagel's body back inside to the mirror-room, intimidating any guards that he happened to encounter with either his little mirrors or his lunatic demeanor. Or perhaps he killed Vagel inside the fortress, with a little mirror showing a world in which trees were constantly being zapped by lightning. Your guess is as good as mine! :D

As for how long Havelock had been planning this surprise attack against Vagel, I'd say he'd been doing it for as long as he'd planned for Joyse to feign weakness in order to draw out the traitor Imagers (for a few years, in other words). As Havelock said to Terisa and Geraden, he's "the best fornicating hop-board player" in Mordant, bar none! :ct16: 8)
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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Cord Hurn wrote:
shadowbinding shoe wrote:Regarding the final scene, there's something strange not to say implausible about Vagel being impaled with a featherduster. How? Havelock is great but he's no Schwarzenegger. The only way this could possibly work is if the famous featherduster had a very pointy end beneath those innocuous feathers. How long did Havelock plan this surprise attack?
Vagel actually ends up being impaled with a large tree branch, despite Havelock originally threatening him with that featherduster.

It is one of the great mysteries of the Mordant's Need story, Shadowbinding Shoe: How did Havelock actually kill Vagel? My best guess is that the Adept had one or more of his pocket-sized mirrors with him in his surcoat, and translated a lightning-blast at a tree outside the fortress at just the right angle to kill his old enemy the arch-Imager. Then he dragged Vagel's body back inside to the mirror-room, intimidating any guards that he happened to encounter with either his little mirrors or his lunatic demeanor. Or perhaps he killed Vagel inside the fortress, with a little mirror showing a world in which trees were constantly being zapped by lightning. Your guess is as good as mine! :D

As for how long Havelock had been planning this surprise attack against Vagel, I'd say he'd been doing it for as long as he'd planned for Joyse to feign weakness in order to draw out the traitor Imagers (for a few years, in other words). As Havelock said to Terisa and Geraden, he's "the best fornicating hop-board player" in Mordant, bar none! :ct16: 8)
A tree branch 8O Maybe he not only had a friendly cloud but also a friendly tree that would grow instabranches on command? (or the featherduster was speically-made from such? You got to admit it's suspicious that a featherduster disappears and a tree-branch appears, inside someone, within a building
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Post by Cord Hurn »

shadowbindingshoe wrote:A tree branch Shocked Maybe he not only had a friendly cloud but also a friendly tree that would grow instabranches on command? (or the featherduster was speically-made from such? You got to admit it's suspicious that a featherduster disappears and a tree-branch appears, inside someone, within a building.
It's always possible, I suppose, that Havelock's featherduster was more than what it appeared to be!
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Y'know, I can't say I ever really noticed that...

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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

We know Vagel's school of evilness discovered many horrific images like the parasitic insect hounds. Vagel knew how to reproduce them when he joined Eremis' cabal. Which means the imagers in his school couldn't keep their secrets like normal imagers do. My guess is it wasn't an open cooperative where everyone pool their knowledge. It was just principal Vagel that enjoined the others' labor. But I wonder, how many of these images were produced by Vagel and Havelock? Administrative work might have kept Vagel too busy to work too much but Havelock needed to impress his hosts in order to rise in the ranks. If he needed to give the recipes to Vagel he couldn't even use captured mirrors from the previous war. He needed to create brand new mirrors of impressive monsters.
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Going back to the tree branch / feather duster for a minute...did anybody else think of the One Tree? :D

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Avatar wrote:Going back to the tree branch / feather duster for a minute...did anybody else think of the One Tree? :D

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Interesting question! I hadn't thought about it...but who can say what areas Havelock has access to with all his mirrors?
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Hahaha, and I never thought of that. :D

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That featherduster is surely a very dangerous tool. 8)
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