Kevin's Watch

I've always wondered why the Woodhelvenin weren't actively engaged in planting/growing trees to connect the remaining forests back together. Has anyone elsethought about this?

First Kevin, let me be the first to say WELCOME.
I never really thought of it, but I wondered why they werent a more "pivotal" people. They are great though. I think they should have had a more sentient role in the forests.
Be True!

I actually have wondered about this before. Here are some thoughts.

Firstly, I don't think that it would be very easy to increase the size of the forests. From what I remember, the lands between Grimmerdhore and Garroting Deep is described as being healthy but not lush, so a lot of work would be required that might be beyond the capabilities of Woodhelvenin after the Desolation.

Also, if the Center Plains were covered by a new verion of the One Forest, access to Revelstone would be cut off. Since people can't converse with the Forestals under normal circumstances, Woodhelvens and Stowndowns across the Land would be surrounded by potentially hostile forests.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Good point Variol Son
Thanks for reminding me to look at the map more often...LOL

i was always under the impression that most of the land(not Land) that had been affected by the Desecration was incapable of sustaining life, meaning, nothing could grow there...but where it could, the inhabitants, with the proper lore, did what they could...that was the whole point of mentioning the Desecration, i think...that only certain parts of the Land were able to be restored, but nowhere near what it used to be...


i think if they had the Lore to restore the rest of the Land, they would have

...I had the impression, that it wasn't up to the people. Hinted at by the other above posts, any restoration was due to the condition of the Land and the remaining forest. There has to be a " will" to do so,,and perhaps their realization of being defenseless to a degree,,left them (the forests) with stopping any more desecration, maintaining as strong as defense as could be arranged with forrestals involvement. Any offense to regain appears to be not of consideration because all was focused on not loosing any more..Rather sad quality of maintaing the status quo....MEL

I wish someone would ask Stephen Donaldson this question (and the question of why parts of the One Forest did not regenerate itself in places) in the Gradual Interview.

Replanting the One Forest would have been an excellent tactical decision, if it were likely that Forestals would come to those places. This could have happened back in the days of the Old Lords, I am guessing, when Forestals were more common and the Forests were more awake.
They could have planted trees to expand Morinmoss to the Roamsedge and along Landsdrop east of the Plains of Ra, protecting the Ramen and Raynhim from assaults from Lord Foul.
They could have expanded Grimmerdhore northeast and southeast, to Landsdrop and the western borders of Andelain. Then expanded it south across the Mithil Valley to the Southron Range, but leaving a narrow opening to allow the Ramen and Raynhim passage westward.
If they had tried really hard, they might have walled Andelain within rejuvenated One Forest (but with only a narrow strip on the eastern side) to protect it from Lord Foul.

Had I been High Lord Berek, Damelon, Loric, or Kevin, that is what I would have attempted to do.

Edelaith wrote: Had I been High Lord Berek, Damelon, Loric, or Kevin, that is what I would have attempted to do.

I wouldn't expect any of the old Lords to do anything like that. It seems like a certain kind of manipulation. Not sure what the right words are, but I think that the old Lords would have thought that trees grew where trees grew because that is where trees were supposed to grow. (I'm going to make a distinction between the old and new Lords on this one. As far as the new Lords were concerned, if they could get something to grow someplace, they would do it). Trying to regrow the old forest in such a tactical way for a purpose like defense just doesn't seem like them. IMHumbleO

OC

Maybe the Woodhelvin are limited in what they can do. They did not seem to be very 'lore powerful'.
Im thinking along the lines that the task of rebuilding the forest would have befallen the forestals.

oconnellc wrote:I wouldn't expect any of the old Lords to do anything like that. It seems like a certain kind of manipulation. Not sure what the right words are, but I think that the old Lords would have thought that trees grew where trees grew because that is where trees were supposed to grow. (I'm going to make a distinction between the old and new Lords on this one. As far as the new Lords were concerned, if they could get something to grow someplace, they would do it). Trying to regrow the old forest in such a tactical way for a purpose like defense just doesn't seem like them.

You're right, I think, psychologically, but it's still not a very sensible position to take. Trees were meant to grow in those places; the only reason they didn't is that humans had cut the One Forest down. Well, if humans cut down a forest, humans can replant it. It's not altering the order of nature, merely putting it back the way you found it.

In this world, too, the people most concerned with preserving things, either man-made or natural, are often the most determined not to fix what other people have damaged. There is a loud-mouthed lobby in Italy organized to prevent the restoration of landmarks like the Colosseum and the Leaning Tower of Pisa; as far as they're concerned, it's better to let them fall down than to add one stone to save them. And the people who are shrillest in decrying the evils of the American forest industry flatly refuse to believe that the forested area of the 48 contiguous states is now considerably larger than it was in 1900. (New York, to take a striking example, was about 30 percent forested a century ago; now it's 61 percent, and the remaining old-growth forest is no longer being logged commercially.)

There is a sentimental streak in many people that would rather mourn for ever over the ruins than rebuild what has been lost.

Again, I would simply say that it would be great to hear Stephen Donaldson on this issue.

There is one other possibility ...

Apparently there was a major shift in climate due to the destruction of the One Forest. We know this is why the region south of Garrotting Deep became wasteland.
Perhaps the climatic region east of the Westron Mountains, and under their rainshadow, became permanently BSk (steppe) and woodlands simply could not regrow.
Trothgard seems to defy this explanation, but Trothgard is hilly. The hills could produce a lesser orographic effect which makes woodlands possible there (once the New Lords revitalized the soil.)
We see this effect in Andelain, which is quite hilly and heavily forested. I think an obvious orographic effect is at work here. And, of course, Andelain is farther from the rain shadow of the Westron Mountains and closer to the moisture feed from the Sunbirth Sea.

So how could Garrotting Deep, Grimmerdhore, and Morrinmoss continue to exist within a steppe climate? The Forestals simply retained the original wet, temperate climate that had once existed there.
That wouldn't be unreasonable. They were preserving the forest, so why not preserve the climate which sustained the forest also?

The thinking of the Old Lords is something I can only speculate on. I dearly wish SRD wrote prequels. Or even a whole story based on that era which need not be a prequel.
For example, the story of how Loric defeated (silenced, they say) the Viles, and the creation by the Viles of the Demondim, would make a good story all of itself, and I at least wouldn't call this a prequel.

Not to worry, good beings. It took much time, and the help of the Colossus of the Fall and a friendly Elohim, but, as you can see, I have resurrected the One Forest! I am extremely happy, as you can well imagine.

Any who wood like to visit are welcome!

Isaiah is there

Yes. Few humans are worthy of living here, and he is the only one who does.

hmmmmm...........Im a forest, but...er...no forestal.....
hmmmmmm.......does that make me sappy?

That was a reference to the avatar......LOL