Kevin's Watch

I noticed something for the first time a couple of months back; everytime something large happens, they'll be somebody somewhere making a conspiracy connectedr to the event. You see it everywhere. Diana, September 11th, titanic, the bible, Roswell, John F. Kennedy... everywhere, you see a large event happen (It has to be bad) and sooner or later they'll be a conspiracy about it.

I find this a little weird. It seems that humans like making them. Maybe we like the idea that there is more to something than meets the eye...

Why do you think this is?

Congratulations and happy birthday dude. Love the new forum.

I think that it's easier for people to believe in some group of power-mad and evil men, plotting for nefarious purposes, than to accept that sometimes ordinary people just go out and do horrible things to one another.

It's so much easier if there is a "them". Because that means we can be an "us".

Sure, there are conspiracies, people plot all the time for various things. But is there some great, all-encompassing conspiracy? I doubt it very much.

Everybody wants there to be one. Conservatives want a liberal conspiracy, liberals want a conservative one. Feminists want a masculine conspiracy, men probably believe in feminist conspiracies. Homophobes believe in gay conspiracies, and for all I know, gays believe in straight ones.

It's easy. It's easier to be a victim of malevolence than of blind chance. For the victims belief system at least.

--Avatar

I have very little time for conspiracies. Most of the time the people making the theories just like the sound of their own voice.

I think we like making them because they are like a form of campire tale -designed to scare you or make you wonder - but having no substance.

I have a rule that is applied to conspiracies: if they the theorist has to keep making up theories to back holes or elements in the story then chances are it's not true.

Avatar wrote: Homophobes believe in gay conspiracies

I used to know this man who had just such a theory and it is unbelievable. I'll have to post it here as it is incredible (and stupid).

Please do. Nothing cheers me up like making fun of the patently ridiculous.

--A

But the odd thing about these kind of people is that even presented with information that their theories are wrong, they will continue to insist that what they say it true.

As I said, I think that humans just like to think that there is more to certain things.

Because it's easier to believe than just accepting that sh*t happens.

--A

But surely if Conspiracies over September the 11th were true, that would be worse than accepting crap happens; because it's not just an enemy that hurt you, it's the people who you should trust. So I don't think that it's a case of not accepting that sh*t happens.

Aah, I wasn't talking about that specific scenario, especially the permutation of it being the government who "dunnit".

However, it's still and explanation that's easy. Easier to believe that than that somebody just wanted to kill all those innocent people for "nothing."

Not better, but easier.

(Wait till people start suggesting that Bush engineered the UK bombings to revive flagging support for...The War On Terror. )

--A

Yeah, I have no doubt that they'll be Conspiracies flying about the London bombings soon enough...

Yes, I agree with you Avatar, it is easier I suppose... When will humans stop being cowards and face facts?

Darth Revan wrote:But surely if Conspiracies over September the 11th were true, that would be worse than accepting crap happens; because it's not just an enemy that hurt you, it's the people who you should trust.

That's the paradox of these theories. In a way, I think that the theorists like to think of themselves as detectives - able to work out what is really going on when there is a lack of information. They develop extensive theories that resist contrary information because of this.

Couldn't have put it better Loremaster.

Thanks, my friend.

It's hard to distiguish purposeful agenda form conspiracy theory, especially if a group of people conspire (in the strict dictionary sense of the word) to create such an agenda. I'd use the present U.S. adminstration, Dick Cheney to be exact, as one example-but thats a matter for another forum.

Don't conspiracy theories abound when there is a strong sense that there are people who know things that you don't? That the [supposed] power elite have information and capabilities which the average person is unaware of?

When you believe such things, it's very easy to make the leap that this information or capability is used for something nefarious, of which you may be equally unaware. In fact, it's almost a given that this would be so. (And of course, it is a given that it is kept secret because it is nefarious.)

When you live in a world in which there is such a thing as the CIA or the Freemasons or the Rosicrusians, which have the aspects of both secrecy and of great resources (=power), I think conspiracy theories are inevitable. I mean, the US military does have secret labs. Nations do have spies. The FBI does keep files on people you would not expect. Computer databases do know very much about almost everyone.

And ... don't conspiracy theories sometimes turn out to be true? Watergate. Kennedy and Marilyn. Enigma. The Black American Express card. (Dare I add: Iraq's WMD.) (What other ones have their been?)

When these kinds of things happen, you cannot immediately dismiss other theories as crackpot on basic principle.

Finally, conspiracy theories are sort of like the mutant children of the elder gods. Believing that they exist explains a lot of things that are otherwise inexplicable. (E.g. Why is there a women in DaVinci's Last Supper?) But we don't believe in spirits and elves and avenging angels any more....

We gotta blame someone.

True, but just because some theories are true does not mean that other theories should be given credence or not to be laughed at. Some theories persist despite overwhelming evidence of the contrary (moon landing, alien abductions, MIB, illuminati, etc).

Here's a link to a 9-11 conspiracy video.

www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

and another thing about Flight 77

judicial-inc.biz/Dov_Zakheim_Fl_77.htm

moon landing, alien abductions, MIB, illuminati, etc

I'm extremely interested in conspiracies, why people believe them, and how they are created. I must say I've read some very convincing accounts of conspiracies and some revealed plots are darker and crazier than many theories. A wonderful book on the subject is The 80 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time by Vankin and Whalen. They detail many of the well-known plots, cabals and such from a skeptics point of view.

Read the Mothman Prophecies by John Keel for the real story of the MIB. The book is non-fiction and the movie is only loosely based on it. Scares me everytime...