Kevin's Watch

And if so, how come he hasn't stepped up and published a new edition?

Disclaimer: This thread is not posted to criticise religious people, but only to warn, that taking the Good Book to literally can backfire quite severely. That, and it is extremely funny and delightfully sarcastic. It was brought to my attention by a Norwegian colleague, and is the response of a Norwegian homosexual to two Norwegian clerics, having said that homosexuals should not be allowed marriage, because it was an abomination onto The Lord. I do, however, suspect, that it was originally in American, due to the reference to hands touching a football! Now THAT is an abomination to a European . The following is my translation from Norwegian.

Dear reverent Moegster and Bishop Bondevik.

Thanks for the struggle for the true faith, and the proof that homophilia is not compatible with The Bible and Christianity. It is clearly stated in Leviticus 18/22 that homosexuality is an abomination, which pretty much ends that discussion.

However, I need some advice on how to live by God’s word:
1. Every time I make a burnt offering of an ox, I know that the smoke pleases the Lord (Leviticus 1/9). The problem is the neighbours!
2. I want to sell my daughter into slavery (Exodus 21/7). But with today’s prices, what do you figure I should charge?
3. In Leviticus 25/44 it is clearly stated, that I can own both male and female slaves, as long as they are born in a neighbouring country. A friend of mine says, that this applies only to Swedes and not Danes. I need help here…. Can I own a Dane?
4. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35/2 is quite clear that he must be slain. Am I morally responsible to do this myself?
5. Another friend of mine thinks, that even if eating crustaceans is an abomination (Leviticus 11/10), homosexuality is worse. I disagree. Who’s right?
6. In Leviticus 21/20 it is clearly stated that I should not approach the altar of God with impaired vision. I confess to being short sighted and I use glasses. Must I have 20/20 vision, or could I be cut some slack?
7. Most of my friends go to the hairdresser. They cut their hair on the side of their heads and trim the edges of their beards. This is an obvious sin according to Leviticus 19/27. How should they be punished?
8. I have read in Leviticus 11/7-8 that I must not touch the remains of a dead pig as it will render me impure. Can I still play football if I wear gloves?
9. My uncle has a farm. He is trespassing against Leviticus 19/19 because he plants two different crops on the same soil. His wife is not much better, as she wears clothes made of two different fabrics (cotton and polyester). He also has the bad habit of swearing too much. Is it really necessary that we round up the whole village to stone them? Isn’t it just as good to burn them to death in the company of the family, like we usually do with people who have slept with relatives (Leviticus 20/14)?

I know that you have researched these problems in depth, and I am sure you can help me. Thank you for your reminder that the word of God is eternal and unchangeable.

Best regards from a wondering disciple, but NOT an adoring fan.

Especially considering the number of mistranslations. At least someone could tell us which one is the definitive edition. NIV, RSV, the Apocrypha, and so forth. And then there's the KJB adherents who believe there are two hereditary "lines" of the bible, the one from Alexandria being the "devil's line."

That's sort of an episode of West Wing. Many of the same points were made, and some of the wording is the same. It was a great scene!

reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

Syl,

I've read a bit about that, but never that much before. Highly interesting. What do you think of its validity?

You're asking the wrong dude.

I read through the first five chapters. *shrug* Sounds like Jesus, alright. Doesn't seem to add anything new to it all, though. It reads pretty much how I imagine bible fan fiction would.

I did like the stuff on honoring women, though.

Sy;,

Doesn't seem to add anything new to it all, though. It reads pretty much how I imagine bible fan fiction would.

Huh? If true, it would indicate that Christ spent a large portion of his life in the East, with various different religions, drawing a clear religious parallel. I'd say that's something new!

Point taken. I just meant it adds nothing new to the history following Jesus, to the overall theme or message.

Syl,

I disagree. If religious fundamentalists saw this, it could be a major blow to their faith. Why? Christ's message is apparently not inspired by the Judeo-Christian God, but by other religions that they have spat upon for centuries.

No, I don't think so. Primarily, I don't fundamentalists will ever accept this as legit (considering fundamentalists even have problems with something eastern like yoga. Secondly, even if they did, the teachings seem to confirm Jesus growing up in the traditional Jewish faith and in general just passing on his wisdom to people in Asia. I didn't see any incorporation of foreign belief systems.

LM..what?,,,maybe i am misunderstanding you..but..uuummJudeism is a Eastern religion..The Old testament Is in parable form,,which makes it very much Eastern..On that point,,basic understanding of what the Old testament is,,there are plenty of books on the Old testament as it was written in its original hebraic language..As indicated here more than once,,there is some major differences between the very early Hebraic and the king James, etc.

The bigger point is one of Beliefs versus Knowing. If you look outside and to the West , rite Now!. I mean ..NOW..9/1/05 8:00pm + MST USA..you will see Jupiter and Venus very close together in the post dusk western sky. The two britest objects up there. For thousands of years,,man looked up at those and other " wandering stars" ( thats what the word "planet" means)..and assigned all sorts of Godlyness to them..heck,,Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, Mars , Saturn, etc,,sound familair?..That is what they Believed..they didn't know,,but they went rite ahead and assigned away. Then Galileo came along and said , look what I see..well..it took the RC Church over 300 years to apologise for the rough treatment they gave Galileo and his seeing..300 years for the church to admit that their Beliefs where wrong....for changing their Beliefs.

This is where we are today. Change is being challenged by those who do not want to change. They want a solid foundation to hold on to..and go into the etheral, vapors, the fantastic to find their unmovable..quite the paradox.
Science is all about them,,and changing things fast,,and the extremes can't or don't want to handle it. As evidenced in the rhetoric and propaganda, they don't even understand what science is. They Know little, but Believe alot. They are so into their Belief systems,,that they claim Science is a Religion!!..Not even a clue these people have and are proud of it! And the worst sin of all..is that they want to perpetuate that ignorance,,into the future. Its all ready begun. The top students from Cal tech, MIT, etc..are foreigners,,not Americans. The President of America,, when he was supposed to be stuffing his head with knowledge,,was the Party boy of the campus busy killing brain cells well into his adult life,,became "re-born" and thus qualified to lead the country based on his " beliefs". He believed a ten minute attention span during a terrorist alert briefing while on vacation would work out,, He Believed Iraq had WMD..he Believed our troops would be met with open arms in Baghdad,,He Believes the middle east will embrace democacy..he Believes Terry Schiavo was Not brain dead, he believes Palmerie didn't take steroids,,He Believes inIntelligent Design..

As you can see..being proven wrong in ones Beliefs is of no consequence..God Forgives Me..I'm re-born.. Opps I started a war,,god forgives me..but I'll side with the pro-life side everytime...Being a hypocrit is of no consequence..because its all based on Beliefs..If you believe A rainbow is beautiful and a creation of God but in no way a hurricane is the product of the same Master,,thats allrite be cause that is what you Believe.

Of course a course set and ruled by ones Beliefs,,sooner or later runs up against the Real world. Hard lumps are taken as a result. We are watching major religions slowly loosing their grip on the masses. The more fearful are abandoning the mainstay religions for the more extreme. Cults anybody? The ultimate paranoia of cult religions is evident Jim Jones'es Little encampment down there in south america.

At the bottom line of this thread,,,is,,that today's extremists are so de-tatched..that they don;t even recognize nor are willing to try to understand ,,that the good book,is in parable form..therefore Not ever to be taken literally. They don't even want to hear that. Thats how adamant they are in their fear of change. A parable is all about change..about how one can have an understandin at one stage of your life and later a totally different understanding. Thats the beauty of the parable and the Old Testament. So the literalists, are really very ugly. Their despair is manifested by not having any real Hope in the future. A future of no change is a dead future. I think,,even tho it took ages for them to figure that out,,even the mainstay religions have wised up to that....MEL

lurch,

I meant Far Easter, such as Buddhism and Hinduism. Sorry.

Syl wrote:You're asking the wrong dude.

I read through the first five chapters. *shrug* Sounds like Jesus, alright. Doesn't seem to add anything new to it all, though. It reads pretty much how I imagine bible fan fiction would.

I did like the stuff on honoring women, though.

The trick for Bible scholars is that the translations of the Apocrypha are always talking about the "Words of Saint Thus-n-So," when Named Sainthood is an idea that followed the writing of the NT by a couple of hundred years.

Although I enjoy a take on biblical history that's more inline with my own personal Coda, until we find a better, more believable translation of the Apocrypha, it still reads to me the same way the Book of Mormon does: "Huck Finn writes a Testament!"

. In Leviticus 25/44 it is clearly stated, that I can own both male and female slaves, as long as they are born in a neighbouring country. A friend of mine says, that this applies only to Swedes and not Danes. I need help here…. Can I own a Dane?

8. I have read in Leviticus 11/7-8 that I must not touch the remains of a dead pig as it will render me impure. Can I still play football if I wear gloves?

I'm with Syl on this. Even if the contents of the original "biblical" writings were divinely inspired, (and don't forget, the effects of ergot, a fungus that attacks rye and other small grains, can produce it's own "mystical" experience), the translations and retranslations, the clear errors in same which have never been corrected, the editing, the outright censorship and excision of some books, (and the political connotations from the time of writing), makes it highly unlikely at best that the bible resembles it's original intent.

It's been too useful a tool for ruling classes to maintain power, to justify oppression, etc. While the intent may have been noble and just, the application has all too often been anything but.

--A

Sort of my view Avatar.

I was expecting you to give us your two cents on this one Lurc

The bigger point is one of Beliefs versus Knowing. If you look outside and to the West , rite Now!. I mean ..NOW..9/1/05 8:00pm + MST USA..you will see Jupiter and Venus very close together in the post dusk western sky.

I've been tracking these for the past few nights. Absolutely gorgeous!. I've been checking them out in my telescope, too. The moons of Jupiter and it's bands or stripes are just breathtaking. It's also interesting to see how fast they are moving relative to each other (from our perspective). They really shift quite a bit from night to night for objects that are so far away.

Sorry about the thread-jack. Yeah, verses like Leviticus 25/44 are the primary reason I can never believe that any deity wrote, inspired, or dictated the Bible.

» Text might be hidden 'gospel of Judas'

WASHINGTON (AP) -- National Geographic unveiled an ancient manuscript Thursday that may shed new light on the relationship between Jesus and Judas, the disciple who betrayed him.

... Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request. ...

I'm posting this because, among other things, it goes towards the idea that the Bible was really editted down in order to fit what some folks wanted Christianity to be.

(I though I remembered a better thread for this, but I could not find it, so I posted this here.)

Funny. That's just what I've always thought. Jesus KNEW very well who would turn him in, and who would deny him. I think that not reacting to this knowledge is pretty much equivalent to asking the Jude-dude to turn him in.