Kevin's Watch

The emotional and physical slam-bang ending of the first book gives me a lot of hope for where the third chronicles is going, but I must jump in with the nay-sayers and throw out the thing that is disturbing me about the newest entry:

Mainly, I feel like there is too much emphasis on external solutions to problems in the narrative. Percipience dimmed by Kevin's Dirt? Well, let's just use the staff of law to clear that right up for you! Illearth Stone destroyed in past espisode? That's OK, we'll use a caesure to allow your enemies to access it's power from the past so that they can have something suitably evil to employ against you. In fact, the whole notion of time-travel as a way to get around issues in a story is something I've come to hate (been done to death by Star Trek and its clones).

I know that SRD has to live by the internal conflicts raised by his use of time-travel, but from what we've seen in book one, it just feels cheap at the moment. I have said I have faith in SRD, and I will suspend judgement until I've read all four books, but for now, it's left me feeling a little... uneasy.

This also plays into the thought brought up in another thread that nobody seems to be in real danger yet. I always liked that Covenant had to really endure the things that happened to him - slogging through swamps, creeping across the land on a broken ankle, etc. To paraphrase John Houseman in the old Price Waterhouse ads "He earned it". I'm hoping to see a lot more of that in Fatal Revenant.

I'm a little bothered by the re-appearance of the Illearth Stone. We know that the Demondim were very powerful creatures; I don't see the necessity of the Illearth Stones to make them a threat.

I think we are story development wise in a very early part of Linden's emotional journey. A big theme in the series is actions having consequences. Linden had it very easy in the book and the first time her actions really came to bite her back was with the Demondim, and the true impact of even that hasn't yet fully materialized.

I think travelling to the past will be Linden's equivalent of the rape of Lena. I think it's no accident that the oft-mentioned "formication" is one letter away from "fornication".

Also, lately I've been that Kevin's Dirt is actually caused by an imperfection in the Laws which was caused by an imperfection in the Staff of Law which was caused by an imperfection in Findail which was caused by the shadow upon the Elohim which was caused by the Sunbane. So Linden clearing Kevin's Dirt with the power of the Staff would be the equivalent of the Clave fighting the Sunbane with the Banefire or Linden healing the Staff-sickened Waynhim with the Staff.

On the Illearth Stone, that really weirded me out too. It just appeared to the play practically from nowhere.

It seems to me that we are having a lot of doubling of things. A second Staff of Law, a second white gold ring, now a second coming of the Illearth Stone. Someone said that Thomas Covenant is on his way of gaining the names of all the old High Lords and I agree that it sounds like that. I suppose Vilesilencer would be the next, after which we get to be antsy about Landwaster. Then there is Roger who would look just like his daddy if he suffered a little first, which I'm sure he'll do...

I wonder what all of this duplication means. Just to hazard a wild guess, maybe the Arch of Time is currently a Möbius strip and in the end it will split into two interlinked rings, the other of which imprisons Lord Foul and the other is the home for all else. Or perhaps in the end the interlinked rings of the Earth and the "real world" will be combined to form a whole Möbius strip.

Someone said that Thomas Covenant is on his way of gaining the names of all the old High Lords and I agree that it sounds like that. I suppose Vilesilencer would be the next, after which we get to be antsy about Landwaster.

That was my theory through the Second Chrons, which turned out wrong, although it may work across the Second and Third Chrons as a whole.

Well, I like it as a theory. We've been treated in the past to a lot of terrible things that Foul can do, but what could be more horrifying than our hero(es) giving in to despair or folly and threatening the desecration of the land by their own hands? There have been an awful lot of references to not letting despair master Linden, and good not being accomplished by way of evil.

As a parent, I can definitely see that I might undertake evil means to spare my son. I could see Linden being drawn into that conflict as well, on a grand scale.

bossk wrote:This also plays into the thought brought up in another thread that nobody seems to be in real danger yet.

On second thought, lets not go there. 'Tis a silly place.

Donaldson does seem to need a tremendous number of things to tell his story this time, doesn't he?

Entropy is catching up with the Land and it's environs. The Farm has burned. The Watch has fallen. The scourge are loose. Ceasures. Cracks in the Arch. Elohim ending their self-exile to sell insurance door to door. (Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria. )

( Is the entropy in high gear because Covenant died? )

Part of the entropy seems to be this phenomenon that everything is coming out of the woodwork. Order is giving way to chaos. Things are busting loose in the storm and floating around, bumping into things in an unnatural fashion. Everyone and everything seems to be waking up and smelling the brimstone.

I think that the number of story concepts brought into play leads directly to the feeling that it's all kind of happening on its own, without any direction from the characters. After all, one person can only keep a handle on so much. Too many things happening, and it all feels like it's out of control. Everything feels "external", because the number of unadressable things greatly outnumbers and overwhelms what the characters can actually address.

Nerdanel wrote:Also, lately I've been that Kevin's Dirt is actually caused by an imperfection in the Laws which was caused by an imperfection in the Staff of Law which was caused by an imperfection in Findail which was caused by the shadow upon the Elohim which was caused by the Sunbane.

SRD has hinted often enough in the GI that what is different about this staff is that it is unruned. Whatever that means. But it has something to do with the fact that it has not been weilded in the service of Law long enough to become integral to it.

In the Gradual Interview was wrote:These matters are all so intuitively, well, obvious to me that I find it difficult to actually explain them. <sigh>

Let's start with Law (structure, rules, governing principles) and Earthpower (energy, vital substance). Think of our solar system. If the planets weren't in furious motion (energy), they would fall into the sun and burn up: if the planets weren't tethered by gravity (structure), they would simply sail away. Without that balance between energy and constraint, nothing could exist. (Of course, to a physicist, it's all energy in one form of another. But still the energy of gravity has to balance the energy of motion, or else nothing could exist.)

Now. The Staff of Law was created as a means to wield the energy of Earthpower safely--i.e. without violating the various constraints of Law. But because this is magic rather than technology (because it deals in symbolic unities rather than in discrete mechanisms), the Staff cannot be inherently separate from the forces and rules which it exerts. It's not a light switch, essentially distinct from the flow of electricity which it enables. In a certain sense, the Staff *is* both Law and Earthpower, just as white gold *is* wild magic. In fantasy, in magic, the tool cannot be distinguished from what the tool does.

So. Even though the Staff was never essential to the original existence of either Law or Earthpower, the simple fact of its creation means that it participates in both, and can therefore: a) strengthen both, or b) weaken both (by being destroyed). So yes, the destruction of the original Staff weakened the structure of Law.

But. This is does *not* imply that Linden's creation of a new Staff *automatically* restores the structure of Law to its original form. A tool has to be used to be effective; and the person using the tool has to know what he/she is doing. Linden, and then Sunder and Hollian, clearly have the spirit and the heart to use the Staff effectively; but they don't necessarily have the lore, the knowledge, to accomplish everything that the Staff is capable of doing. (The absence of runes on the new Staff is not an accident.) Also the new Staff is profoundly different than Berek's original creation. It was formed, not from the wood of the One Tree, but from one sentient (Findail) and one quasi-sentient (Vain) being, each of whose nature affects the inherent qualities of both the new Staff and what the new Staff can do. (And then there's the interesting question of whether Sunder and Hollian would actually *want* to heal the broken Law of Life, since by doing so they might undo themselves.) And in addition: when the new Staff was created, it became an inherent participant in both Law and Earthpower, just as Berek's did; BUT the *condition* of Law and Earthpower when Linden created her Staff was different than it was when Berek created his; and therefore the *condition* of the new Staff is also different.
So. The creation of the new Staff did not *in itself* restore the broken Laws of Death and Life. Presumably it *could*. If the right wielder used it in the right way. But that hasn't happened yet.

<whew>

(12/20/2004)

Whatever this all means for the Final C, one things is sure: SRD has enough reason to justify whatever he wants to happen without resorting to the Staff being flawed. (Which I think Linden would have sensed right away, anyway.)

( Is the entropy in high gear because Covenant died? )

OMG

This simple question may be the most profound question that I've seen yet.

Think, think...

dlbpharmd wrote:

( Is the entropy in high gear because Covenant died? )

OMG

This simple question may be the most profound question that I've seen yet.

Think, think...

Define "high gear" though.
It's been 3 thousand years Land-time-wise.
And several years after TC died in the real world.

Just to add my 'twopenneth' I think that this being the first book of four after such a long gap (pardon the pun), a number of things have had to happen.

Commercially:

There is a need to consider new readers, people who have not had the other six books at their bedside to re-read ad infinitum for the past age. Also the casual reader who may have read them but once. The book is invested in by the publisher and is expected to make money through sales, which would be limited if a shroud of esoterica made it too hard for the reader to get into, without a lot of work going through the previous chronicles; many would simply pick up something else.

Whilst we'd like to think that this imperative would not effect the quality of the work as art, it is a part of the work as craft, personally I forgive it as I forgive other examples of this in other series and in fact welcome the referesher.

Contextually:

To accomplish this the beginning of this new drama has taken time to do some introductions, both with character and by referral, to the players we will be travelling along with. It also displays a number of the tools of power available to the various sides. The fact that the Illearth stone is brought back is in many way no different from the Staff being found or the finding of Loric's Krill.

It is also about setting the mood and I agree with Wayfriend that there's a feeling of inevitability that the characters we have encountered so far are not determining, but reacting to the prevailing course of events. It's interesting that his post mentions "brimstone" as in my mind's eye there is a grey sky and a pre-storm atmosphere for large parts of the action (maybe it's written that way I can't recall exactly, but that's the picture I have). My feeling is that there is another level to come, possibly wholly or partially metaphysical, but we would not be able contextualise it without the events that have happenned so far.



The discussion on the staff has raised an idea that the staff is flawed by the quality of Findail, I'm more inclined to believe that the damage to Vain's arm could possibly weaken it. I think the assumption has been that the arm turning to wood was somehow part of the process of forming the staff and was triggered too early, but nonetheless did no harm. Could this have been a necessary flaw in it's construction?

The names used by SRD are seldom accidental, and in the case of the staff I think that the Runes of the Earth may well be the Runes of the Earth-(power) that the staff will need to earn to become a "mature" Staff of Law. However, I think this is what SRD is saying above (my interpretation), that this graduation is not a manufactured process and the earning must come through its use at various levels of power and judiciousness.

Other names in the context of the Staff of Law include the two participants. Findail (find ail) seems to me to say "seek out that which is ailing/hurt/dying" and in the context of the sunbane makes sense, but what of Vain? Is vain used in a context of "look at me see how perfect I am", or vain as in "hopeless"?

Does the staff heal, but in vain?

SRD wrote:BUT the *condition* of Law and Earthpower when Linden created her Staff was different than it was when Berek created his; and therefore the *condition* of the new Staff is also different.

SRD has said somewhere in the Gradual Interview that he likes to say potential spoilers in a noninformative and misleading way. A condition being different can mean so much. One of the possibilities that the condition in question is "flawed". Linden might not have noticed anything because the Staff surpassed her due to its raw materials even though she had made it and the flaw would have been a subtle one.

About the runes, I think those are important too, but not the whole story.

I think maybe I should make a whole topic about these matters.

finn wrote:The discussion on the staff has raised an idea that the staff is flawed by the quality of Findail, I'm more inclined to believe that the damage to Vain's arm could possibly weaken it. I think the assumption has been that the arm turning to wood was somehow part of the process of forming the staff and was triggered too early, but nonetheless did no harm. Could this have been a necessary flaw in it's construction?

SRD has addressed this question very directly in the GI. The damage to Vain's arm was not harmful, and it was not inconsequential. I will say no more in case you don't want to be spoiled.

Nerdanel wrote:A condition being different can mean so much.

We have some evidence already that the Law of Death and the Law of Life were not completely elimintated. They are broken, but not destroyed.

Could it be that the new Staff affirms the Law "as it stands" rather than "as it should be" ??? That is, it considers the state of Law at the time it was created to be Ideal, and will weild Earthpower to preserve it, possibly at the cost of preventing those broken bits being repaired?

Wayfriend wrote:Could it be that the new Staff affirms the Law "as it stands" rather than "as it should be" ??? That is, it considers the state of Law at the time it was created to be Ideal, and will weild Earthpower to preserve it, possibly at the cost of preventing those broken bits being repaired?

I think it could be like that. Specifically, since the Sunbane was a corruption of Earthpower and Linden created the Staff while the Sunbane was still in effect, the Sunbane could be enshrined in the Staff of Law! A shadow upon Findail would be basically another way of saying the same thing due to the connection between the Elohim and the Earthpower.

It is even possible that Linden's taking of the Staff from the past slowed down Kevin's Dirt instead of allowed it to happen.

finn wrote:
The names used by SRD are seldom accidental, and in the case of the staff I think that the Runes of the Earth may well be the Runes of the Earth-(power) that the staff will need to earn to become a "mature" Staff of Law.

I actually agree with this idea. Since Anele is the one who can "read" the runes of the Earth, by hearing its' story, and he has yet to find his purpose and his right to weild the staff, this may very well be his purpose: to somehow carve that story/power into the staff (he is a being of extreme earthpower) - though I think it will take all four books for him to find out.

I am still curious as hell as to what Esmer's part in all this is. That may be one of the most interesting things to be revealed.