Kevin's Watch

It came to me that we don't know if Lord Foul was ever chosen by a Ranyhyn back when he worked undercover in the Council of Lords. That could have interesting implications and I'm curious as to what the other people on this board think.

I'm not sure about the subject of this thread at all, but I started a fanfic on High Lord Kevin and I'm finding it a plot point in my story that Lord Foul was never chosen. The idea is that it would take less time for a Bloodguard to ride from Mount Thunder to Revelstone and for Kevin to ride from Revelstone to Mount Thunder than for Lord Foul to walk all those kilometers to deliver critical information, which is what makes the planned treachery plausible. (Lord Foul could of course travel much faster than a Ranyhyn, but the Lords wouldn't know of it.)

I thik SRD didnt think ahead when he said LF was on the council.
That implies he was sever by a Bloodguard and now by ranyhyn.
(Actually we know he didnt plan ahead of the first chrons. )

Not all the Lords were chosen by Ranyhyn. I'm wondering which camp Lord Foul belonged in. It could even be that he never went to the Plains of Ra to see if he would be chosen.

But yes, he would have been assigned a personal Bloodguard. I think the Haruchai are simply too ashamed to ever initiate a discussion about that and neither Linden nor Covenant appears to have made the connection.

Although, technically speaking, do we know if Foul showed himself BEFORE the Bloodguard showed up--maybe even before Kevin befriended the Ramen...?

I've posted a fan fic in which I spectulate that not only was Foul chosen by Ranyhyn but was served and protected by the Bloodguard. I believe Foul's deception was flawless until he chose to reveal himself. Of course thats only my humble opinion.

Is that the one, where they go to Fouls Creche?

That was pretty good--okay it was pretty damn great.


Didn't SRD so he liked the idea, when you told him about it in the GI?

drew wrote:Is that the one, where they go to Fouls Creche?

That was pretty good--okay it was pretty damn great.


Didn't SRD so he liked the idea, when you told him about it in the GI?

Thanks drew. Yeah. The Warder of Hotash Slay is where Foul leads a mission to his own home. The subject matter was inspirational.

I remember asking SRD about his feelings about fanfictions but I don't remember him commenting on that story idea. Maybe I should go back to the GI and have a look.

I could be mistaken...but I read the GI question days after I read the FanFic..it stood out in my head..I thaught he told you his oppinion on if that was how Foul would have done it.

It's the only FanFic I've read of yours, you must have others around here.

aTOMiC wrote:I've posted a fan fic in which I spectulate that not only was Foul chosen by Ranyhyn but was served and protected by the Bloodguard. I believe Foul's deception was flawless until he chose to reveal himself. Of course thats only my humble opinion.

That is my theory also because afterall, he was on the Council
sitting beside the other Lords then.
He is a Lord.
And was treated accordingly before the truth was known.

I must admit this thought has occurred to me more than once as well. We know Foul had gifts of orcrest and lomillialor which didnt reject him as he was more powerful than the person who gave him the gifts (Kevin) so maybe its similar with the Ranyhyn. Although the Ranyhyn recognised TC and they are supposed to be super Earthpowerful. Also, the Ranyhyn had encountered Foul before in the story of Kelenbrahbanal so would they have known him again.

As you say though maybe he never offered himself to the Ranyhyn.

Kay, my theory insists that Foul is so powerful that he can cloak his true identity completely. The evidence of this lies in the way he managed to fool Kevin. Given the abilities Foul has shown in all of the available books I have no issue with this concept. Of course only SRD knows for certain and probably wouldn't give a direct answer even to the most pointed question on the subject.

It could also be that he never went to the Plains of Ra - after all, Mhoram had never been to Ra until the Quest headed there, so it is feasible that Foul made excuses (or devised ways) not to go there.

As an aside, I find it interesting that Foul's title of "Lord" (which presumably is the title he was given by Kevin when he sat among the Council) was retained after the RoD... I can imagine that Foul kept the "Lord" as a mocking reminder of how blind Kevin and the people of the Land had been, but I find it surprising that even the Lords in the First Chronicles referred to him as "Lord Foul the Despiser"... implying that despite his evil, despite all the harm he had wrought and planned to cause to the Land, the title of "Lord" had not been recalled. In a way, it is as if the Lords (Mhoram, Prothall, and so on), although they considered him their enemy, also felt they had no right to decide whether Foul was to be stripped of the title or not - although of course, even if they had formally decided to strip Foul of his Lordship, he would have probably kept referring to himself as "lord Foul". But at least the people of the Land wouldn't have called him "Lord" anymore.

Or maybe the title just fell into common usage and it gradually lost all connections with the Lordship Foul had been bestowed by Kevin.

I agree that it is totally plausible everyone was just blind to the evil power of Lord Foul.

Also another thing which has bugged me is the name, Lord Foul. I know that aTOMic's excellent fanfic gave him the name Lord Jeroth (taken from a-Jeroth) but I wonder if that is whet he actually called himself. Surely even the most trusting Lord would have had cause for pause if someone had turned up at Revelstone calling himself 'Foul'

I mentioned that a few weeks ago... but I think it was decided that he must've had an alias while he was on the council.

I think Foul could've quite easily fooled the Bloodguard (for all their righteouness, they actually fall to Corruption relatively often). But I don't think he'd have fooled a Ranyhyn. Certainly not when he was riding one.

I think Lord Jeroth is a likely idea and am using it myself. (The other option would have been Lord a-Jeroth.) I figure the Clave could have had the right idea since it was led by a Raver who would know about those things. All the other names for Lord Foul are descriptive and obviously have been given to him by various peoples who have had contact with him.

In fact I find it less than certain that Lord Foul even has a "true" name that was not given by humans or other creatures of the Earth. Does the Creator have one?

I think the Council of Lords simply did not have the precedent of stripping the Lordship from anyone. They were all such nice people that it had never been necessary. In addition, Lord as a rank was something like a Ph. D. in Magic, which conveyed power only because the Land was a meritocracy.. Even in the real world nobody revoke's a criminal's academic degree if the academic degree has been honestly gained.

The question of whether Lord Foul would have ridden a Ranyhyn seems to come down to whether he wanted to. My guess is that he did not, since the Ranyhyn were among the things he hated. I also remember that the gifts of orcrest and lomillialor Lord Foul received had a tendency of getting lost. I think he didn't like having them around.

That raises another point actually. We know that the new Lords have to pass the sword and staff tests, but how about the old Lords? Was Foul tested before he became a Lord or was it simply out of Kevin's guilt? There is a quote somewhere which says something about Kevin doubting him and not knowing why, which is why he gave him the gifts 'though these gifts were soon lost' but I forget if it also says this is why he was made a Lord.

The Ranyhyn have the ability to see into the future, at least in a limitted sort of way. I've always figured that when they chose someone, they weighed the possible futures to figure out if was a good idea or not.

Some of the Old Lords were probably seers as well, so Foul would have needed to be able to prevent them from seeing his future. I don't think he could have shown them a false future, so he must have been "closed to them", the same way that Covenant was.

Kevin trusted Foul in spite of that, but I think the Ranyhyn would have been more cautious.


Also I think Foul introduced himself to the Old Lords as "Foul". They would have thought it was just an odd name with no deeper meaning. Sort of like the Viles, who weren't evil in Berek's day. (Or maybe the words didn't have negative connotations until later.)

CHARLES!!! Long time-no hear.
(Our favorite cable T.V. star)

Lord Foul did seem to have a habit of losing thing, didn't he?
Gifts, the Illearth Stone, Popularity.
Maybe a Ranyhyn would have been next.
As much as he hated the Ranyhyn, maybe he did not ride one afterall.

Me thinks Warmarks reads the Gradual Interview too much . The Bloodguard were new during Lord Foul's time on the council--maybe they didn't wholly know how to read him or possibly he "cloaked" himself to them, somehow. Do we even know that all the Old Lords had Raynhyn?

cheval wrote:CHARLES!!! Long time-no hear.
(Our favorite cable T.V. star)

Wait, I've got fans??? I've been waiting and waiting for somebody to say something!

("Fantasy Bedtime Hour" episode 24, but I'm too modest to call attention to it.)

Lord Foul did seem to have a habit of losing thing, didn't he?
Gifts, the Illearth Stone, Popularity.

Not to mention the end of "White Gold Wielder", where he gets a really nice present and then tries to use it without reading the instruction manual.

Maybe a Ranyhyn would have been next.
As much as he hated the Ranyhyn, maybe he did not ride one afterall.

"High Lord Kevin, there is a country far from the Land, and there the savants of Horselore have brought forth tools known as 'spurs' and 'the riding crop'. They make horses go even faster! And another tool called 'the bit' makes them easier to steer!"