Kevin's Watch

I was wondering this the order day at a resturant, when a friend tipped the waiter; whether we should be giving tips at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not tight with money or anything, it's the priniciple of it that I disagree with. People like waiters, hairdressers, people who carry your luggage, already get a paid a wage. Why should they get tips for doing a job they're being paid for? They haven't done anything extra than what their job requires, why should they be rewarded?

I mean most of us here work, do you get tips for what you do? If not, why not? You probably work just as hard if not harder than any waiter; you do what your job description requires you to, so do they... why do they get extra?

When discussed (argued) with my waitress elder sister, she pointed out to me that Waitress', hairdressers, taxi drivers, get paid a low wage; and they need tips just to get through the day.

A devout argument, to be sure. However, it has it's flaws; before I became a supervisor, I had as low a wage as they. People on Cash registers have as low wages. I don't see them getting tips. Why the distiniction?

Well, I'll leave you to discuss it...

They shouldn't get tips. Unless I become a waiter or a taxi-driver I will stick to this argument categorically, but the moment I'm in a job with a chance to get tips, my opinion will change completely.

If someone's willing to give you a tip, you should take it, but the waiter or taxi-driver should not EXPECT to recieve a tip just for doing his job.

That always 'bothered' me too, but not so much in that they GET tips (hey, it tradition now ... can't stop it), but that it is expected! Hey, a tip is for a job well-done. If I don't feel that a waiter/waitress did a good job (was freindly, responded well to needs, etc.), I don't wish to feel compelled to tip. But the culture around this is that it is expected all the time. I despise a place that includes them in the bill and rarely (if ever) go there again.
The pizza deliery-guy is another. Many of the places include a delivery charge in the bill. That, to me, is the driver's tip ... extra money for the service of sending a car to deliver my pizza (now if the guy gets the pizza to my door much quicker than I expect and it is warm and nothing is slopping around, I love giving tips in this case. Job well-done.

My beef is the notion that I HAVE to give a tip... regardless.

Apparently it is even worse in America.

yeah, I agree with you Usivius. It's worse because they expect it. And to me, that's completely wrong. It's rude and greedy imo.

I do give tips, don't get me wrong... but I've had some really bad service in some places, so sometimes I don't.

The tip is the carrot and the stick. What kills me is people that overtip (or give a standard tip for substandard service). They're ruining the system. Undertipping is almost as bad, but since it reinforces the idea that nothing is a given... eh.

Mandatory gratuities, like for parties over [x] people, suck, though. In my experience, more often than not, the level of service for large groups is below my expectations (just because there's more people doesn't mean you have to do less per person, especially since they're getting a larger tip). It's a given that at least one person's meal is going to be messed up. Why should that person have to pay the full tip?

I don't know how it is overseas (tipping is a strange thing for sailors in ports. most people tell us we overtip. and what's with strippers on stage not taking money during the dance!), but here most service jobs barely pay enough for a person to survive. Without tips...

Revan wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm not tight with money or anything, it's the priniciple of it that I disagree with. People like waiters, hairdressers, people who carry your luggage, already get a paid a wage. Why should they get tips for doing a job they're being paid for? They haven't done anything extra than what their job requires, why should they be rewarded?

I agree 100%.
They get paid for their job, I should have to give them extra.

wait staff gets a lower minimum wage than the regular minumum wage by law, thats why they get tips, to make up the difference. Most people who tip well are people who have or are currently working in a restaurant. But bad service is bad service, but you need to know who to blame first. The cook, the manager, bad luck, etc can all contribute to lousy service. Oh, yeah, I worked in food service for about 8 yrs, and I tip 20% on average, and I'm a poor bastard.

What Esmer just said.

The wages are atrocious and these people make their living off of tips, not their salary. If you don't tip, they don't eat. So yes, tips are expected.

yeah! while i was waiting tables here in San Francisco a few years ago the minimum wage was 8 or 9 dollars an hour but i made just over 4, 4.35 an hour i think. uh and NO BENEFITS either. so now...i tip. i always tip 15 to 20% unless the service sucks so bad i can't bring myself to do so and if that's the case, i don't tip and i tell a mgr or supervisor why. waiting tables is a B*TCH. people treat you like crap no matter how nice and polite you are. i could rant about waiting tables for YEARS! bussing is worse!!! usually the bussers make the same as the waiters but get less tips due to tip sharing (waiters give a percentage of their tips to the bussers and the line cooks! further reducing the amt of money the waiters actually take home of your measley tip)
so...tip or don't tip as you see fit, just remember, it COULD be Lucimay waiting on your table!!

I can't speak for Europe, having never been there and not knowing what the basic wages for wait staff would be.

But, yeah -- here in America those people are pretty dependant on tips to eat. That said, you do have the right not to tip if the service truly sucks. Luckily, that's a very rare occasion.

The Esmer wrote:wait staff gets a lower minimum wage than the regular minumum wage by law, thats why they get tips, to make up the difference.

One could argue that it was the other way around. They get tips, that's why people think it's okay to pay them less than minimum wage.

Tipping IMO will never make sense. A person who does a crappy job bringing me a $40 meal gets a bigger tip than the really great person bringing you the $8 one.

This all reminds me of Reservoir Dogs...

But, yeah. I always tip... minimum wage here is $5.15, that's nothing, and you get less if it's a job where tips are expected.

As a lifegaurd I make $5.25 and I don't get tips... although it would be fantastic if I got a couple dollars evertime I have to jump in after someone, or for pool parties, or for teaching swim lessons to their kids when there are only 3 people in the class. That's practically a private lesson.

Buuuuut, if I want extra money I can teach private lessons. I've learned that people pay me ridiculous amounts for those, and I'm one of the cheaper ones.

The moral of this rant is... uhh... I tip.

Also why should i tip when resteraunts add a 'service charge'?

Hmmm, issues would be so much easier if they were just black & white, huh?
In Europe, (or at least the countries I've been to, Itlay, Netherlands, Switzerland) the tip is worked in to the price of the food and the waitstaff is given a decent wage. People are not expected to leave a tip, and from what I remeber anything over 10% is excessive. At a restaurant you get standard service, your order taken, your drinks and food delivered, and the bill presented, no more no less. There isn't going to be any waiters with "flare" dancing on the tables trying to make dining the most wonderful experience you've ever had in your life (a la Joe's Crab Shack) YKWIM?
I like the concept.
In America waitstaff gets paid below minimum wage and the patrons are expected to bring their wage to a livable level by supplementing with tips. Is the system fair? What system is? Ideally, a person could make over minimum wage and pretty decent money if that person provided an exceptional service. The reality is, most people are cheap bastards. So, what if the wage for service workers (namely waitstaff) increased to at leat minimum wage, then we wouldn't have to worry about tipping? Well, if that ever happened, you can bet that the increase in wages would increase the price of food 15-20% or more. (Like we are going to get out of tipping that easily). My long-winded comment is that we are goingto pay for it one way or another- higher food (or service) prices, or tipping.
OK, so help me with a delima. When I order take out, and pick it up myself from the restaurant, do I tip?
-Avy-

I manage a moving company down here in New Orleans. Tips are something that our customers sometimes give to our guys (or gals) for their appreciation of the service that we give them. Tips aren't always money...they buy our guys lunch, provide them with drinks, give them items that they maybe cannot use anymore, etc. Tips aren't usually expected, definately not required, but appreciated when given.

What we do is hard work, and we are often moving things around for them after we complete the job within their households, something that is not generally required for us to do. They ask us to take 'special'' care of certain pieces...and like to show their appreciation when we do that for them.

I think that a lot of people who tip realize the dollars that they are spending for our services don't necessarily cover what they feel our guys efforts are worth, so they like to give them a little extra, or what we call 'lagniappe' down here.

When going to a restaurant, you should expect to tip your waitron (the gender-neutral term ), and should not begrudge it. For whatever reasons, tipping became so standard that, as has been said, they don't get nearly the same salary as any other job. In addition, they are taxed a certain percentage based on what the government assumes they are getting in tips. So consider it part of the price of the food.

However, that does NOT absolve them from giving you good service. I bussed tables very well, and figured I'd go up to waiting tables. I was not happy doing it, nor good at it. I stopped for my own sanity, and so that the patrons would not have to suffer through lousy service. Completely unfair to sit back expecting a decent tip with the full knowledge that they weren't going to get decent service out of me. If lousy waitrons get decent tips, there's no reason for them to stop being lousy waitrons, and go get a job they can do well. Waiting tables shouldn't be considered an "Anybody can do it if they need money" job. I have left tiny or no tips when the service sucked, and really great tips when they did a great job.

And even though The Esmer is right that bad things aren't nearly always the waitron's fault, they are still the person you must deal with, and I'm much happier with, for example, slow food but apologies, smiles, filled water glasses, and some brief conversation than fast food and no service or personality. Anybody probably can be a good waitron when everything is running perfectly, but the people we want in those jobs are the ones who are still good when things are bad.

(Does everybody hate the word "waitron" now? We used to jokingly use that word where I worked.)

I don't mind tipping, but the etiquette around tipping has always been a little unclear to me. Maybe I'm just too lazy to look it up in a book. I think establishments should post their tipping policy right at the front door or something, so the customer knows what to expect. All I know is that the baseline is %15, so I tip %20 (or more). I sometimes feel guilty that I haven't tipped enough...but I don't want to be one of those people that, as Syl says, ends up overtipping or tipping even when it's substandard service.

You're right, Avytaya, this isn't a black and white issue. I personally don't feel I should tip if I'm picking something up myself.

Wow, I didn't realize that there was a separate minimum wage for 'waiting' staff in the US. That is totally BOGUS! That has to change...

I've been told I'm a horrendous over-tipper. I tip waiters, bartenders, the golf cart guy, the guy that wraps up the Christmas tree and puts it in my truck, movers, contractors, bellboys, host/hosteses, barbers, the shampoo girl....You get the idea. In a restaurant, I tip 20% minimum, unless the service is horrible. At a bar, I tip a buck a beer.

I look at it this way; when I go to my usual haunts, my drink is sitting on the bar by the time my butt hits the seat. If it's crowded, I get served first. And I never, ever pay a full tab. I've sat in the bar for 4 hours or so, bought a few rounds, and had a $10 tab. Guess what, I'm leaving at least $20.

Not only that, but if people are rewarding good service, it's incentive for the server to continue offering good service.

The people in those jobs make jack. I have no problem whatsoever tipping when I get good service.

Matrixman wrote:All I know is that the baseline is %15, so I tip %20 (or more).

15% is the average for average service, if that's what you mean. It should go down from there for bad service. Also, in situations like a buffet, where you serve yourself, you should not tip that much. And if they don't bring you anything to your table, they don't get a tip.

And another thing that's unfair: you don't leave a good tip if the food is bad (burnt steak, etc.). But how is that the waiters fault? Doesn't make sense.