Kevin's Watch

At the request of another Watcher, I'm reposting my Linden thread which disappeared when we were "visited" the other day. Unfortunately (fortunately? ) I don't have the long-winded reply I'd written to several comments made by other watchers...but we're all friends now and that's the main thing!
Cheers! Seareach

I've started a new thread, because...well, I'm not sure where my comments would fit. There seems to be a lot of threads which complain about Linden (either who she is, or the fact that she's not Thomas Covenant). I want to add my 2 cents, because I often read threads on KW and don't comment even though I have things I might like to say. But I'm actually quite passionate about this so....

I'm not a Linden lover (I'll be the first to confess that). It's not that I don't like her...but she's not my favourite character. If I were honest, I’d say my favourite “characters” are the haruchai (Bannor and Stave in particular). I also have a soft spot for Foamfollower. I think any dislike I might have for Linden stems from the fact that there are times when I don't understand her and maybe that's simply because she's a stronger woman than I am and will ever be, so I have trouble empathising with her when she does certain things, reacts to things in certain ways. I'm the type of woman (and the type of *mother*) who would probably end up halfway through Runes sobbing my eyes out and becoming so overwhelmed by the situation I'd end up in a straight jacket. But if Linden did that...well, that wouldn't make a compelling story, would it! I think that it's hard to write women well, and I think SRD does a pretty good job of it. One of the things that I think is difficult to do is “write” an emotional woman: reading about a woman who (for example) is pushing back tears every three pages or so can become a little draining. I even thought in Runes every now and again "come on Linden, get a grip". But there were times when I also thought "hey, what about your son...you're getting upset about so many things but you seem to have pushed thoughts of your son to the wayside...why aren't you crying over him at this very moment!" As a parent there were times Linden made no sense to me (for example when Linden returns to her house to find Jeremiah gone and then slowly and meticulously puts on her clothing before heading out to find him. If it had been me, I’d be out that door in what ever I was wearing). I'm a reasonably emotional person, so for me to think "get a grip" is something that goes against who I am in real life (ie: as I've said, in Linden's situation I'd probably be put in an institution). To me, it all comes down to how Linden’s character is written. Is she consistent: do her thoughts, feelings, reactions etc all make sense. What I mean is: is Linden faithful to her character? I think she is. And in this type of story I commend SRD for writing Linden the way he has and I commend the way he deals with the complexities of her emotions.

I guess it's hard to please everyone! I think it's a delicate juggling act (demonstrating the frailty of a woman without making her look weepy and pathetic). And in my honest opinion, sometimes I think women take offence to women being portrayed “emotionally” in this way because they think it ends up making women look weak. I know plenty of women who would get offended about being portrayed the way that Linden is portrayed. Sometimes Linden is over emotional, sometimes she’s indecisive, and sometimes she thinks far too much. But I don't see such things as weakness, but simply a demonstration of what makes her human.

For example, on the surface Linden might look like she cries at the drop of a hat but if you think about when she's actually getting emotional (what triggers it, what has gone before, what she has experienced before that moment where she pushes away those tears) it makes sense. It’s accumulative. If you really think about it, if you look at the chain of events it makes complete sense. Maybe it won't necessarily make sense to all my rockbrothers, and maybe it won't make sense to my emotional (for want of a more appropriate word) "strong" rocksisters. BUT it makes absolute sense to me (as a woman, as a mother. I identify with her).

If anything, on some levels the problem might be that it's a little too “close to home” for some people. Linden is far too “human” for us. SRD is good at showing us all aspects of being human, the good *and* the bad. He doesn't give us "pretty" stories. The rape of Lena is one great example, Covenant's unpaternal love for Elena is another. I'm not condoning rape, nor would I even condone a parent loving their child in a way that is more than paternal BUT the context in which these things happen makes it believable and so despite how much it might revolt the reader, a lot of us keep reading because part of the journey (the story) is understanding the reasons for these things, understanding how a man can be moved to do these things, feel these things, and how, ultimately, he “redeems” himself. Despite all Covenant's faults those of you who have come back for more (who are reading Runes) must acknowledge that to a great extent Covenant is a good guy despite all his faults, despite how *human* he is.

I think you can look at Linden in a similar light: she hasn't done the same things that Covenant did (she is in a relative sense more of a "goodie" than Covenant ever was) BUT she shows us what some people might describe as "faults". She *is* emotional, she *is* indecisive, she does think way too much sometimes (but if you could get inside my head...well, you might think "wow, Linden's not that bad after all!"). But let's all be honest here: can you honestly say that you don’t *ever* get emotional (even over-emotional), that you aren’t sometimes indecisive, that there aren’t times in your life when you don’t over-think things. And we’re talking about someone in a very high-stress situation here. I would ask, has there never been a high-stress situation you’ve been in when you’ve shown at least one if not all of these “qualities”? In my honest opinion, SRD is challenging you to look at yourself and see yourself for who you really are. Could it be that a lot of the objections to Linden simply stems from the fact that some of you *don't* want to understand her because in doing so you are actually demonstrating your own "frailty" (ie: if you admit to the fact you actually can understand her you're in fact exposing yourself, exposing those things that you prefer to keep deeply hidden inside, exposing those things that society has managed to make into weaknesses when they are in fact simply part of the complex make-up of what makes us human).

Linden's weeping: yep, there are women out there who actually do cry at the drop of a hat. I'm not one of them, but in high stress situations the tears are burning my eyes, and slipping down my cheeks even before I know it's happening. And have a think about the situation Linden is in. She’s lost her son (the one thing that given her life meaning), he’s being tortured somewhere (surely all parents can imagine the emotional anguish that knowing that would cause) and everywhere she turns there seems to be people/things trying to prevent her from saving him. And she’s tired…think of all the things she’s been through! (I spent 18 months with a son who hardly slept which meant I hardly slept. Being *that* tired, and feeling that out of control in a situation you desperately want to fix, can really make your lose control of your emotions and act and react irrationally).

Linden's whinging: well, I actually don't see it as whinging. I see it more as her "lamenting"--an articulation of heartfelt thoughts and feelings.

Linden's indecisiveness: the hallmarks of a "thinker"--you think about doing something and then you think "oh my goodness, if I do that then the implications of that might be...." In high stress situations, I find it's very hard to make a decision: I feel trapped. I know I need to do something but every option I have isn't one that is going to make everything 100% better. I know there's going to be repercussions either way. I feel like I’m going to lose no matter what I do. But sometimes, when it all becomes too overwhelming to think about I simply leap: I go with your heart and I don't think about the repercussions of what I’m doing. I simply have to face the consequences of my actions when they arise.

I have also been thinking that perhaps some people don't like Linden because dealing with emotions, doing this in a fantasy novel on the level that SRD does, seems out of place in a fantasy novel. I'm not saying fantasy novels are shallow, but the whole idea of fantasy is to be taken on a fantastic journey ("give me Sandgorgons and Giants" I cry. "Let me escape this world of troubles that I have, let me escape myself and take me to a place where I am going to be amazed. Let me read a good story!"). I want to “escape”. I don’t want to be reminded of those kind of "qualities" (or some might say "faults") that I have (ie: the things that make me human). When I say something like this, I think of comments made by people like "I think that time travel is out of place in a fantasy novel". Perhaps some of us think that emotional journeys such as the one that Linden is going on are out of place in a fantasy novel.

BUT SRD writes high fantasy: this is the whole idea! This is multi-level stuff. When I read Runes, there were time when I could read a whole chapter, and there were times when I was lucky to get through four pages. Sometimes this was because I didn't find the story as compelling as I wanted it to be, sometimes it was because Linden was getting on my nerves, but a lot of the time it was because I had to sit back and think, digest all the "levels" of the story, and because walking in Linden’s footsteps, feeling what she feels, thinking what she thinks is exhausting. This is a good thing: it’s challenging me to think on multi-levels and makes me feel I’ve lived every moment of it, every *intimate* moment of it. It’s not just a “good story”, it’s a wonderful “experience”. I read SRD because his books are not just your “standard” fantasy novels…they’re so much more. I rank SRD as one of the greatest writers I’ve ever read (not just fantasy writers, just writers full stop!).

I'd like to also suggest that there might be something else going on here: that some people simply don't like Linden because she's *not* Thomas Covenant. Sometimes I get the impression that a lot of the, shall we say, "Linden bashing" that goes on is fuelled by the fact that people wish she wasn't there simply because she's a poor replacement for Covenant. That disappoints me. Perhaps to those that have only read the Chronicles and none of SRD's other works, this may be a germane gripe. Having read all of SRD's works, I don't really care if Covenant is there or not. I just care about the characters that *are* there: are they believable, do I empathise with them, are their stories compelling? That’s what’s important to me.

My question is to those of you who say "where's Covenant": what are you going to do if Covenant doesn't appear in Fatal Revenant (I know he appears at the end of Runes but who knows what exactly that means!). If Linden remains the main character, the focal point of Fatal Revenant, will you be disappointed, will you put down the book in disgust, will you swear off reading the remaining two novels? If you finish the fourth novel and find out that Linden remains the main character, that you only get to "see" Covenant once or twice, will you think "hey, I've been ripped off!" If you answer yes to any of this, I think that's disappointing because, in my honest opinion, if you read these novels with that frame of mind you're probably *not* going to enjoy them...because you'll always be picking fault. I'd ask, is Covenant (the character) the *only* thing that you like about SRD's novels? If you say yes, I'll say "wow, that's disappointing! You're missing out on so much more!"

I've "exposed" myself here: I've let you into my world. By writing this I am telling you things that perhaps I'd prefer people *not* to know, telling you things that make *me* human, telling you things that makes me feel *vulnerable* (despite the fact that none of you really know who I am so it doesn't matter). In doing so, I'm trying to demonstrate that perhaps one of the reasons Linden is so misunderstood is simply because a lot of people don't want to acknowledge the truth--that they can empathise with her more than they want to admit they can. By admitting you understand her, perhaps you too would be making yourself much more vulnerable to others than you'd like to be.

Perhaps you will disagree with everything I’ve said, perhaps you’ll agree with some of it and not all of it. I don’t mind.

All I am saying is give Linden a chance!

Here endith my "rant".

I'm glad you were able to repost this, Seareach!

All hail Seareach! (again)

...wow.

Seareach, that was excellent. I enjoyed reading that, and I agree with most of it.

When I read Runes, there were time when I could read a whole chapter, and there were times when I was lucky to get through four pages. Sometimes this was because I didn't find the story as compelling as I wanted it to be, sometimes it was because Linden was getting on my nerves, but a lot of the time it was because I had to sit back and think, digest all the "levels" of the story, and because walking in Linden’s footsteps, feeling what she feels, thinking what she thinks is exhausting.

That is the same for me. I sometimes could only read one page!

As a parent there were times Linden made no sense to me (for example when Linden returns to her house to find Jeremiah gone and then slowly and meticulously puts on her clothing before heading out to find him. If it had been me, I’d be out that door in what ever I was wearing).

I can't speak as a parent (heck, I'm only a kid), but when I read that I thought that it was acceptable. She knew (or had a fairly good suspicion) of where Roger was going, she knew that she wouldn't be able to beat him there, and she knew that he wouldn't kill Jeremiah, so she would have stopped and thought, 'I reckon I'm going back. Back to the land.' So she would have put some extra, warmer, clothes on.

Other than that, though, your post was excellent. Well done!

Seareach wrote:At the request of another Watcher, I'm reposting my Linden thread which disappeared when we were "visited" the other day. Unfortunately (fortunately? ) I don't have the long-winded reply I'd written to several comments made by other watchers...but we're all friends now and that's the main thing!
Cheers! Seareach

SRD's characters arnt meant to be necessarily lovable (or even likable)...and like real people, sometimes we find them despisable...