Kevin's Watch

I'm sure this has probably been done to death before, but it has always bugged me about the Chrons. After Kevin enacted the ROD, how did people know what happened to Kevin? Many a time we are told about Kevin's last seconds and how he realised at the last the mistake he had made and 'died howling'. They even made a song called Lord Kevin's Lament where they described his final meeting with the Despiser. Some of this could just be assumed but they seem pretty sure about a few things. So how did they know if everyone within a certain distance wouldve been killed by the Ritual?

I've wondered about this too. It seems pretty unexplained.

Who would know what happened?
- Kevin himself (dead and not available until Elena broke the Law of Death)
- Lord Foul (and nobody knew that he had returned)
- any Raver who would have been hanging nearby (and nobody had seen them for ages as they also were weakened)
- some random ur-vile or such (would not have survived)
- a Giant, if any accompanied Kevin and survived the Ritual of Desecration (the Desecration seems to have been all about fire)
- a Seer???

I think it's possible that the story of Kevin's last moments is in fact plausible fiction (that probably also happens to be true nevertheless). As I have strived to write my fanfic about Kevin, I have noticed that the New Lords and Atiaran in particular seem to be quite fuzzy about the facts surrounding Kevin. As I have tried to construct a coherent narrative I have found myself having to reconsider things like what role did Kevin's Watch actually play. I think it's possible that nothing very much really happened on Kevin's Watch but that passage of time confused where the events took place.

Do we even know what the effects on the Land were, other than that it was desecrated and that people wouldn't survive?

I mean, Nerdanel mentions fire...did fire rain down out of the sky? Do we have any idea of what the desecration actually entailed at all other than that the only survivors were those who left the Land?

--A

I don't remember where it was, but I remember there WAS a mention of fire raining from the sky.

Anyway, I found a quote where Covenant (a seer and a prophet) had a vision:

..he had a momentary vision of what the Land must have looked like after Kevin had unleashed the Ritual of Desecration. Behind the luminous morning, he saw hills ripped barren, soil blasted, rank water trickling through vile fens in the riverbed, and over it all a thick gloom of silence - no birds, no insects, no animals, no people, nothing living to raise one leaf or hum or growl or finger against the damage.

Maybe somebody else can give us a quote...I don't remember it myself...

--A

I have to say I dont remember reading anything about what the ROD actually entailed but as the Land was considered uninhabitable for a period of time I have always thought of it more along the lines of something akin to a nucleasr blast, or perhaps like the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah when the cities were destroyed by rains of fire amongst other things.

I agree that I can't see where the knowledge about what actually happened to Kevin came from so it was probably fiction, but they seemed very sure that he knew what he had done at the end.

As you say the only people really in the know would have been Kevin and Foul (or the Ravers). Anyone else that witnessed it would have died.

Come to think of it, how did the Ur-Viles and Waynhim survive? Was it mentioned somewhere that they could see what was coming and ran for the hills?

I imagine the ur-viles and the Waynhim dealt with the Ritual of Desecration in much the same way as they dealt with the Sunbane - by staying underground. Any rain of fire wouldn't have touched them there. Only if lava got into some of their tunnels inside Mount Thunder would they have been directly threatened.

I suppose a great many ur-viles out making war may have died however. I think many of the people Land probably didn't make it to safety either.

That sounds about right, a lot of people probably died in the war before the Ritual was even begun. After all war had been raging for a long time by that point. I'm not really surprised Kevin got so desperate after so many years.

The population of the Land must have been massively reduced (as discussed in the recent thread about population and people).

Even with the warning loads of people probably didn't make it.

To be honest though, I think Kevin kind of missed the point. The idea was to destroy EVERYTHING and start from scratch, but by saving his Lore in the Wards as well as so many people, the Bloodguard, the Giants and Ranyhyn, there wasn't really a new beginning. That was probably what saved Foul. If he is evil and the Land/Lords etc are good and if everything has to have an opposite, then by preserving some Lore etc he actually helped Foul. We already know that he was protected by Earthpower but perhaps if Kevin had gone the whole hog there wouldn't have been enough to save Foul!

Of course then you also have the problem of would the Land have ever recovered and if there cant be good without evil it was only a matter of time before a new evil popped up.

I think Kevin did the biggest Desecration he could, and it wasn't enough, even with Lord Foul's help (who had been hoping that the power released would be enough to break the Arch of Time but it turned out otherwise).

Mhoram estimated that Trell's Desecration would have been enough to wreck the promontory of Revelstone (by turning it into a new volcano? or maybe Ritual of Desecration is different for a Lord and a rhadhamaerl), so there appears to be a correlation between one's power and the power of one's Desecration.

The problem is though Kevin wussed out. He was too softhearted when it came to the Giants etc and that may have been his fatal flaw. At the very least if he hadn't preserved his Lore things may have turned out very differently.

I don't think that even failing to preserve everybody would have permitted the ritual to destroy Foul. The ritual was born from despair, and despair feeds the despiser. It may have weakened him to endure it, but the very fact of its commission would have sustained him.

--A

I think Kevin was right to preserve what he could. Without it, instead of sending everything back to start, he would have eradicated the forces of good even more completely than he did what happened to the forces of evil would have been the same. In the next war the Land would have been defended by rhadhamaerl and lillianrill along with warriors who would make things up as they went along, never having studied war lore.

I think magic in the Chronicles is the kind of thing that's very hard to get hold of initially, but once you know a little you have the head open to learn more. (Even Berek had to be told, if you trust the legend) If you know nothing it's practically impossible to stumble upon magic that works but if you already know some magic you can attempt to modify it and deduce things based on your existing knowledge. The New Lords could research new ways of doing magic because they already knew some ways (and remember what their "new magic" ended up being in the end).

Agreed Nerdanel. Good post.

--A

I don't think the Ritual would have worked no matter what Kevin did because if anything, Lord Foul was in a sense an expression of Earthpower which was why he was healed by it. Ok he was a big shot out in the Cosmos but being thrown to Earth must have reduced him somewhat and I think that the Earthpower was in part, an essence of the creator and that Earthpower is neither good nor evil. As stated before somewhere here and also in the chrons, it is how the power is used that determines its goodness or evilness.

But I still think that even though Kevin would have failed anyway, if he had at least destroyed his Lore or only made certain aspects of it available the whole outcome would have been different.

The outcome would certainly have been different, but I don't think it would have been a difference for the better.

I absolutely and totally agree that all power is morally neutral, and that only it's use determines it's nature though.

I'm sure we've discussed what relation, if any, Foul has to EarthPower, but I don't remember our conclusion. Is he part of EarthPower?

--A

I think he is, if for no other reason than the theory that everything has an opposite and that as the direct opposite of the Creator (I'm assuming he had no more or less power), he would have something to do with Earthpower. I suppose you could ask why is Foul evil? Perhaps it is necessary that he is that way to preserve the balance of everything, including Earthpower.

Saying that though, I wonder where the theory that everything must have an opposite comes from? I know the scientific theory about equal and opposite reaction etc but why that shoudl translate into emotions I don't know

Anyway, as well as all that, the Creator made the Earth which means in a sense he created the Earthpower, so I am guessing that the Earthpower is a part of his being and that is where things like hurtloam come from. In the same vein, the banes within the Earth such as the Illearth Stone may be wrong, but they are still in a sense Earthpowerful as they come from the Earth. I think it said in LFB or somewhere that the Despiser had placed the banes within the Earth which was when the Creator got the humo and cast Foul down. So basically the 'good' Earthpower was bits of the Creator and 'bad' Earthpower came from the Despiser's being.

I think it was said that the destruction of the Staff of Law allowed Lord Foul use Earthpower to recover between First and Second Chronicles. (The Law preserves Foul but it also limits him.) I think he isn't a being of Earthpower himself, but something more alien. The situation is clearly very different for him than for the Elohim, who are Earthpower incarnate.

As for means and ends, there is more about that stuff in the Last Chronicles. I think power is morally neutral, but some spells are innately evil.

First, if the Creator is part of the EarthPower, and Foul is his opposite...I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

Second, there's nothing to say that the Creator himself is part of, or filled with, EarthPower. Indeed, EarthPower seems to come from the Earth. The Creator may have made the Earth, but the Earth may be the originator of EarthPower.

And I don't know where the idea comes from, or even if it's true, although at first thought it seems to be. *shrug*

--A

But he also used Earthpower to heal himself after the Ritual when the Staff was lost but not destroyed.

I do agree that some forms of power are specifically designed to be used for evil means, but I wonder what would happen if someone tried to use such a thing for good? I know in 2nd chrons the graveller of Stonemight Woodhelven used the fragment of the Illearth stone just to provide life for her village, but I dont think that really counts as its not the same principle as when Drool used the Staff (supposedly inherently good) to do wrong.

But then dead Elena used the staff apparently without consequence even though she had been 'turned evil.' I think someone explained it as being because she wasn't entirely bad.

I know the Bloodguard tried to use the stone to combat the Despiser and were mastered but what if someone with great power such as a Lord tried the same thing? Even though Drool was warped by the Staff it still did what he wanted.