Kevin's Watch

It seems strange to me that these pages are not really being used as Current Affairs pages but rather notification pages for a range of stickies and announcements.

How do you see SRD and his works .. do you see evidence of social commentary in his writings??

Personally speaking this is one of the very aspects of Donaldson's work that I most respect and this very element gives his work that depth I crave.

Tolkien is similar in this .. LotR's reflects his longing for the world of his youth and childhood, his experience in the Great War is arguably evidenced in his writings .. in a fashion similar to the writing and poetry of Siegfried Sassoon and even Wilfred Owen .. in some degree. But thats another matter .. and a matter and view that can indeed be challenged.

We know that SRD was a conscientous objector to the Vietnam War .. we can infer from his work an indication of his personal world view .. I say this because I can't imagine SRD creating a world he didnt truly believe in and in him as an author I sense .. a well of integrity ..a man to me that it is inconcievable that he would entertain such inconguencies ..

As SRD fans we too share a common interest in the ethical and social values espoused within his creation ..

Is there in his works in your opinion a social commentary?? If so what is it that SRD appears to value?

yaddah yaddah yaddah

U should modify ur poll 2 include: all of the above! That's what i would have picked---Ur right tho, Jay and Vain should have created a dif topic or forum 4 Announcements. btw: I'm getting messenger back right now!

Your wish is my command!

It is done .. you can now select ...'all of the above' .. if you so wish ..

*bows and exits stage left*

I picked "All of the above" too -- although I didn't remember a specific reference to footwear off the top of my head....

I think I remember posting, or reading posts, on the old board about how SRD was writing very much in the vein of the late '60s and early '70s. Environmental concerns and a belief in equality for women are very evident in the Chrons. Religious themes are big. All that other stuff is in there, too....

I read "Dune" many years ago, and I remember not liking it much because I thought the author didn't much like women -- or at least, didn't much like the idea of equality between the sexes. I can't now put my finger on what gave me that impression, but I remember feeling it very strongly. OTOH, I liked SRD's politics a lot, and that colored the way I felt -- and still feel -- about TCTC.

I agree!! .. I also like SRD's politics a lot!

Re: sexism .. I feel that he was really ahead of his time.. If you compare other authors .. how many revere female characters as he does .. writes very strong women .. leaders even .. and downplays virtues (sexuality/sensuality) like that Chatelaine and other courtisans of the gaddhi possessed and used to manipulate outcomes. Infact that whole regime which was built and perpetuated these notions was denegrated by SRD's authorship.


Re: environmentalism .. SRD wasnt entirely ahead of his time I guess .. but the whole notion of respecting resources which the people of the Land did and sustainable development which is echoed in the practice of the inhabitants .. esp the Waynhin .. But the interesting issue of environmentalism to me is the connection the Land has to the spiritual essence that is in the inhabitants. The energy .. earth power ..

I will return to discuss the other areas I am personally impressed by SRD's encorporation into the chrons. a little later ...

I can understand your impression re: Dune. Even I got that impression .. but it was that reprehensible fat guy that really made me feel ill .. I forget his name .. the evil guy ..

anyway ..

I am awe inspired by SRD's work for one reason .. that I admire his world view .. evident or suggested in his writings ..

...women. Now there's a topic that probably needs it's own discussion forum. From the Sisters of the Bene Gesserit to the various concubines and love slaves, Herbert portrays women as schemers and manipulators. Of course, he doesn't cast men in a much better light.

Sky, you're thinking of Baron Vladimir Harkonnen. He makes my skin crawl.

Duncan Idaho - in the end he was my favorite character (over and over and over and over again).

But this line of writing is going to take us away from social commentary in the writings of SRD and get us off on an exploration of Dune, which properly belongs in the General Fanatasy area.

- Hearthcoal

Yes that was the guy ..

and thats all I have to say about that ... for fear of

veering

this thread into 'tangential' (I made that word up) realms ..

.. which we all recognise by now .. is a very very big .. no-no

albeit .. betimes a thing of great enjoyment ..

Just because this is an interesting topic...

(either that or u r just desperate 2 catch me !)

Actually, I have more or less given up on catching you. You are much too fast for me! But it is fun to make you squirm.

And I did think this was an interesting topic. I hope to see Sylvanus and Fist comment on it...I think they woulkd have some really cool stuff to say about it...

The only themes I really notice are the environment, aggression (and for anybody who has ever studied martial arts, The Oath of Peace is what has always driven me towards aikido), and humanity, but moreso the latter. I believe ideas of integrity and personal worth are the brunt of what Master Donaldson is trying to say. As far as the other issues go, it's my opinion that these are mainly the virtues of the author shining through in the writing (he obviously respects women, and it shows in his writing). For me, the Chronicles are a guide to living an upright life.

How can you like Idaho more than Paul?!! And what about Leto?

Duncan is the coolest! Much cooler than Paul! (so duchess r u implying that I would have something less interesting to say on the topic than Syl or Fist? (**feels greasy and paranoid--jumps in shower...**)

I make you feel greasy and paranoid?

Jeez, duchess!
What a sweetie you are!

Well, I see all of Sky's choices in TCTC, to one degree or another. (aliantha, if you're here, the only footwear reference I can think of is the way Drool tracked Covenant's movements in LFB.) But the biggest one, and, coincidentally, the one I'm most concerned with, is humanity. Different individual characters and different races all trying to answer the same questions in their own ways. What is evil? How is it beaten? How can, and how must, I act in the face of it? How am I to aid others? At what point is what they need more than I should be expected to give?

Of course, he doesn't give us any answers that we are all supposed to embrace. Pietten's, Foamfollower's, Bannor's, Mhoram's, and Covenant's answers couldn't possibly be the same. And neither can any of ours.

(Duncan rules!!!)

no I WAS greasy! Literally! And I'm paranoid by nature--so cut it out lil-miss-oversensitive! I was just joking! Should have added a but I thought u knew me better by now...

Danlo ---

thankyou duchess for bumping this topic and finding it interesting

I really appreciated Fists comments .. I see the same in SRD .. he explores humanity on a variety of levels .. under a myriad of ethical questions ..

I see SRD also as commenting re: organised religion too and the establishment .. and social stigma ..

SRD brings to me his own unique political-philosophical credibility as a conscientious objector during the Vietman War period .. To me he is not possessed of apathy and this demonstrates a political conscience which is reflected in his writing .. and something I greatly admire in his work .. and moreso about his person!!