Kevin's Watch

Do you think that Godsen redeemed himself by choosing Warden in A Dark and Hungry God Arises?

He seems to be the distaste of many here on the Watch, and many within the story - characters loathed and detested him - the damage he did to the UMCP and Humanity was profound. He was Holt Fasners spy inside the hollowed place of UMCP HQ.

But in the end he chose Warden over Holt. Do ypu think he redeemed his acts - in the end?

yep.

edit: good topic darth.

Sorus Chatelaine...what say you?

and additionally...who is Frik's dopelganger in the Ring Cycle?

I would say Godsen's Wagnerian doppleganger would be Frika - goddess of family, childbirth etc, since he almost personified that unbreakable link between UMC and UMCP (the family aspect), and also since it was Frika who reminded Wotan about the rules concerning incest with regard to Siegmund and Sieglinde. Godsen was a stickler for the rules if I remember correctly.

Not sure if he totally redeemed himself, but he certainly showed where his loyalties really lay.

I agree, VS. I don't think he compensated for all the harm he wrought as Holt's lapdog, but he at least did what he could to correct things.

I disliked from the outset though, mainly because SRD described him as having the grin of a pederast. *shudder*

Oh, and I think Frik = Frika makes sense.

Min Donner wrote:She was glad Godsen Frik was dead. That unctuous
weasel had done the UMCP incalculable harm by
serving the Dragon more than Warden.

I like Min.


That said, redemption is always a difficult topic - many of the characters in the series did the right thing in the end, but did they truly redeem themselves? In some cases there was truly irreparable damage. Too little too late?

I didn't like Godsen Frik. I think that even in the end he was more concerned with his career than the greater good.

well...what i think is...

are there degrees of redemption? if so then Frik is certainly at the low end of the scale...his last act was not enough to buy him a nice plaque.

but if there are no degrees of redemption...if one redemptive act can save you...



and i might add, CJ...i am completely unfamiliar with the Ring Cycle and have never finished the Nibelungenlied...so i don't know all the characters which is why i asked the doppleganger question. and thanks VS for answering.

Lucimay wrote:are there degrees of redemption? if so then Frik is certainly at the low end of the scale...his last act was not enough to buy him a nice plaque.

I know someone else who is at the low end of the redemption scale....

drew wrote:

Lucimay wrote:are there degrees of redemption? if so then Frik is certainly at the low end of the scale...his last act was not enough to buy him a nice plaque.

I know someone else who is at the low end of the redemption scale....

oh go to the Angus thread, you angus hater!

Lucimay wrote:and i might add, CJ...i am completely unfamiliar with the Ring Cycle and have never finished the Nibelungenlied...so i don't know all the characters which is why i asked the doppleganger question. and thanks VS for answering.

My only experience of all that stuff is SRD's notes in the back of The Real Story. It just amused me that VS didn't mention the near-identical name as supporting evidence.

I kinda thought that would be self-evident.

CovenantJr wrote:

Lucimay wrote:and i might add, CJ...i am completely unfamiliar with the Ring Cycle and have never finished the Nibelungenlied...so i don't know all the characters which is why i asked the doppleganger question. and thanks VS for answering.

My only experience of all that stuff is SRD's notes in the back of The Real Story. It just amused me that VS didn't mention the near-identical name as supporting evidence.

ah...ok...it's been since the start of the semester that i read TRS...maybe even longer...and i can't remember what was said...what with Herakles, The Aeneid, The Iliad, Gilgamesh, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, portions of Nibelungenlied, Alice in Wonderland, and Heart of Darkness under my belt since then!! i'll re-read the whole thing as soon as the semester is over...in three weeks! yay.

Lucimay wrote:well...what i think is...

are there degrees of redemption? if so then Frik is certainly at the low end of the scale...his last act was not enough to buy him a nice plaque.

but if there are no degrees of redemption...if one redemptive act can save you...

I don't trust his motives. Did he make the right choice because it was the right thing to do?

He also believed that Dios would defend his own people
with the same stubbornness and skill he gave to all
humankind.

Or was it because he realized that Holt considered him expendable, and he thought that Warden would protect him?

Does it make a difference if he did the right thing for self-serving purposes?

Interesting point. Now I come to think about it more, it does seem that he came to recognise Warden's qualities and wish to ally himself with them. Perhaps the status quo had remained, Frik would never have turned against Holt. Yes.

I guess the question is; what do you have to do to redeem yourself?

Do you have to be sorry for your sins? Do you have to try and make amends; or turn from the path of sin you've been walking on?

I'd say Godsen Frik made quite adequate amends. It cost him his life to turn against the Dragon, so you can't argue that he paid an insufficient price; and he was threatened clearly enough to know what might happen.

What I find more interesting, however, is the effect that his death had on subsequent events. In effect, he sacrificed himself so that Koina Hannish could replace him and do the job of PR Director properly — i.e., by relating to the public, and not by blowing a smokescreen to cover Holt Fasner's evil. If it hadn't been for Koina's bravura performance at the GCES, Fasner might have won out after all.

Obviously, Godsen had no intention of making this happen. But he paid the biggest price he knew how, and by something very like grace, it was enough to meet the need that his sins had created.

Also, I think it's kinda worthwhile to say that his amends are adequate considering that he's Godsen Frik, pretty much accustomed to being Holt's lapdog. Frik has basically placed his entire future career in the hands of Fasner, and far as we can tell, has never had an iota of actual goodness in him. But even he realizes, finally, that while he's got the position down, his survival is not the kind of thing to lay in the hands of The Dragon. Honestly, the reversal from "I want power" to "I'd like to be alive" is about the best we should fairly expect from Frick in about two seconds, and that alone should be enough for him to get a little credit.

More importantly, we need to remember something else; Frik is probably the best we could've expected. Fasner wants competence in ED and DA, and Donner (who's loyal to Dios, and thus safe) and Lebwhol (unlikely to strike Fasner as a likely ally to Dios, and a genius in many ways) are perfect for that. Dios, meanwhile, is possibly more competent than Fasner all things taken together, and moreover seems loyal enough. Protocol, though? The job doesn't need honesty mixed with competence; competent lying is good enough, in fact better. If Frik had stepped down any time along the way, tried to protest Fasner's ways (here alone he shares a quality with Dios, a well timed betrayal; the prime difference is the motive) he would've been kicked out or killed and replaced. As he was.

And don't forget the Flare he sends Warden...

His ten minutes were almost up when he finally summoned the courage to chime his secretary.
"Communications must have recorded the conversation I just had with Holt Fasner," he said to her. "Tell them I want a copy of it on Director Dios' desk immediately. Tell them to flare it. I want him to look at it right now.

Again, not much of a testament to his personality, but during the entire Gap series, providing this evidence (which is used, and at least helps Hannish a little) of Fasner's hand in the Kaze attacks is pretty much the only good thing he could've done. Besides, as Variol mentioned, dying . Anything else would've been ignored or countered by Holt, just like Dios' plans nearly were when he gave Nick control of Angus.

Everyone has to start somewhere. Frik's timing just proved fatal...kind of ironic that his survival based decision was what ended his life.