Lord Foul's Name

[Bannor]

Am I the only one thinks that Lord Foul's Name sounds just a little pretentious? I am reminded of the cornball names in Pilgrim's Progress (Sister Pure, Brother Honesty, etc). I wonder if there is something in the naming of TC: was there a reason for the name covenant? Was there a promise or agreement somewhere in there between TC and The Land, the people, himself?
The rest of the names are all really great fantasy names; I was just never really pleased with Lord Foul (kinda like Jimmy Bad Guy).
What do you think; is this just a quirk in me?

[Coercri]

At the very least it's obvious, what I wonder is.......did he go by the name Foul when he was masquerading as a lord? If so, how did they miss that??
As for TC's name it seems entirely possible, there's even the doubting Thomas aspect to consider (as noted by Undoubting Thomas).

I believe kevinswatch links to a page that mentioned the Elohim was an ancient name for God or Angel's & gives the actual meaning's to the raver's names as well. It makes you wonder how many of the name's have a hidden ( or in some cases, barely hiden) meaning.

-Coercri

[Bannor]

Coercri, I am still laughing about your comment. I didn't think I could be amused so early in the morning!

At the very least it's obvious, what I wonder is.......did he go by the name Foul when he was masquerading as a lord? If so, how did they miss that??

Can you imagine letting someone into their elite group of morally-minded indiviuals if your name is Lord Foul?! Reminds me of a Far Side cartoon in which some people are trying to escape an exploding island saying something like, "Hey, think we maybe should've thought twice before settling on Firecracker Island?"
And the reference to the "Doubting Thomas" fits TC to a tee.
Thanks, Coercri

[Vain]

I figure TC was so that he could say TCTC

However, the association with Doubting Thomas is plausible, and the Covenant does seem to be relevant as well - all in all a good name.

As for Lord Foul, didn't he have a different title when he was a lord? I wish these books were on CD and searchable

[Prince of Amber]

You can just imagine High Lord Kevin introducing the newcomer to the council, 'Thats Foul - F.. O.. U.. L as in morally or spiritually offensive to the senses, errm - I'm sure we'll all get to love him, just give him a chance'.

Seriously - what bugs me is why they couldn't see he was a wrong 'un. I mean Linden could see a raver from a hundred yards, why couldn't the old lords tell it was Foul, whatever his name was? Surely his aura would have been 10 times worse than a raver. How did Linden react when she sees Lord Foul in WGW? I forget.

[Guest]

ah, but he could mask himself then; remember, Sauron was also accepted by the Numenoreans; I suppose in those days Foul still had the ability to disguise his true self more than in TC's time
and Linden's senses were exceptional, unheard of even amongst the Lords I think

[Bannor]

True, but Sauron's name did not connote an immediate threat like "foul". I kinda like Vain's idea that Foul must've/might've had a different name at the time he deceived Kevin and the gang.
I hope no one mistakes me for one who is making fun of TCTC. Still one of the greatest series ever, and there are tons of great names (especially the giants' monikors). I just think that SRD could've picked a better name for Lord Foul.
Maybe Foul had a name that meant Foul in another tongue: Fleshharrower was known also as Jehannum and Moksha, and the other ravers had other names than their English names (Kinslaughterer and Satansfist). This lends even further creedence to Vain's idea of Foul having had a different name
I can almost hear Foul as he finally becomes his true self, "Oh, didn't I tell you? My name means 'FOUL'."

[saltheart foamfollower]

the reason lf is called lord foul is simple.
the people in the land called him lord foul,because he is foul. that is simple.
SRD did it because he is also.
you can test my theory by reading TWL, and realize that the people in that time period, (in the land) called him something else. i forget though...
TC is obviosly sybolism at its best.
THOMAS COVENANT
thomas is somewhat associated w/ disbelief, isnt it?
and covenant means some kind of rule that someone tells someone else that they have to do it or else they will pay the brutal consiquence?

THE RULE OF LEPROCY. OBEY IT OR THEY WILL GO THROUGH HELL, DIE SLOWLY AND BE in total HELL!!!
DO YOU GET MY ANOLOGY ABOUT COVENANT?
Through the first few books, he lives by the rule of leperocy, the covenant.
and he goes into the land and he dosent believe in it. the thomas.
put the name together and you get an etchey description of the first 120 pages in LFB, make sense? i want to know what you think...is my theory correct.?
hearthcoal, what do you think?


p.s. tc and LF WERE IN THE FIRST 90 Pages, look at an interview he did and i quote " i realy didnt think about writing untill i got to colledge. i basically started a story, wrote the FIRST 90 PAGES, got butloads of encouragement, and continued writing"
he started out will something simple w/ simbolism, but when he was done wiith the book he got attached to the word and didnt want to change it ......

[Guest]

I agree, the name Foul probably did develop later after his true nature was discovered. Just as TC became known as the Illender after he defeated LF. All of the titles given out by the people of the land seem to be very straight forward & descriptive.

I like the analogy between TC's Leprosy & the name Covenant. It appeared to make sense that there was a connection, but I was having trouble making it until then. Even though he finally did form a sort of Covenant with the land, that wasn't immediate.

But perhapes it is in his nature to make Covenants in general:
His pact with his Leprosy to prolong his life
With the Ranyhyn to excape the necessity of action & for absolution
With himself regarding Elena to again escape the use of his ring

Then there was also the comment that Mhoram made in TPTP that both the Bloodguard & Covenant required absolute answers ~ coupled with his intense loyalty ~ It looks like once you win this Doubting Thomas over he is absolute, as is a Covenant.

Just a thought,
-Coercri

[Vain]

Another angle I just thought of. Maybe the word "Foul" conjured up no ill thoughts and was as normal as saying Lord Charles.

It's not like the language was a total copy of english as we know it.

[amanibhavam]

well, most probably Foul had a more innocent name in Kevin's time and got his epithet later; it's just that his original name is not recorded in the Chronicles
well, Elena could've asked Kevin:-)

[danlo]

Sorry amy, but that's what u are. I did a bunch of research in LFB but could nowhere find any other name 4 Lord Foul during the time he served with and befriended Kevin. When Mhoram talks about Foul revealing "his true self" 2 Kevin on Kiril Threndor he simply refers 2 him as Lord Foul. As some1 above has suggested perhaps that was his name and that Foul was just as inocquious a name in the Land as Osendrea or Variol. Another possibility is that Foul being so dam evil his name (as a Lord) was simply banished 4ever. But he is remembered as a Lord--hmmm...going back 2 the time of Kevin--they say that Foul wore (or was hiding in) the guise of truth. He must have had 2 swear "The Oath of Peace" and was poking about while Kevin's Wards were being created. Possibly Kevin was 2 busy or 2 charmed 2 notice Foul's true nature, but he did create the Wards because he previeced evil was near (or approaching). Hell what really could have fooled Kevin was that lormilliador did not reject him--it indicated the Foul got rid rid of the high-wood very quickly--or it was lost soon after tho...
-----I think the name u're refering 2 in the 2nd Chrons is the vague reference 2 Foul that many use 4 him w/o really knowing who or what he is: a-Jeroth of the Seven Hells--@least that's how the Clave refers 2 him. Many different folk had different names 4 Lord Foul:

"To the Lords of Revelstone I am Foul the Despiser; to the Giants of Seareach, Satansheart and Soulcrusher, The Ramen name me Fangthane, In the dreams of the Bloodguard, I am Corruption. But the people of the Land call me Gray Slayer."

[aliantha]

I was going to say that maybe in the Land, "foul" didn't come to be synonymous with our definition of the word until after Lord Foul infiltrated the Council and screwed everything up. But I think somebody beat me to it... (I agree with Coercri -- hard to believe that they'd let somebody named "Foul" on the Council. "It's, erm, a family name. Yeah, that's it!" )

There are all sorts of covenants associated with TC, starting with the fact that he still wears his wedding ring, a souvenir of the covenant he made with Joan.

[danlo]

Hells--@least became a link 2 some1's email--how VERY strange--perhaps it's Lord Foul's email(?)---ooooh VERY scary kiddies!!!!

[JNO Caoimhin]

My cousin read the book first,he recomended it to me,I asked about it,he mentioned Lord Foul,and I thought "How original",hah! How right I was!

[Guest]

it is kinda embarresing when your trying to stand up for tctc and you say Lord Foul ......but if tolkien can get away with mount doom...??

[arwenavery]

that anon was me

[Bannor]

You are so right, Arwenavery!! I never thought of it before! Two points and a ranyhyn for Arwenavery.

[CovenantJr]

I have to agree with Saltheart Foamfollower's earlier post. It always seemed clear to me that Lord Foul was called Lord Foul because he was foul. I mean, if some kind of horrible evil entity emerged in reality, and didn't introduce itself, would the human race really try and concoct a dramitic-sounding fantasy-stylee name for it? Probably not, IMO. For that reason, I was always fairly impressed with Lord Foul's name...

[Skyweir]

Whats in a name??

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

Lord Foul was just one of the many names given him .. I actually doubt that LF is his actual name .. It might really be Bob or Dick or some other name ..

Depending on the culture of the inhabitants of the Land .. he was named the Despiser .. and a whole heap of other names (which escape me now)given to the 'immortal one' imprisoned on this 'earth' who desires the destruction of the AoT to liberate himself from 'Creator' imposed captivity

dub him 'the antagonist' ..

or maybe even .. TC's evil nemesis?? .. his alterego .. or if you don't want to go there .. what about .. just his combattant .. the foe .. the enemy .. the evil .. the ill ..