What kind of person is Angus at the end of book 5?

Post by **Revan** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:37 pm

Is he a good one? Bad one?

Post by **aTOMiC** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:51 pm

A very different person than he was in book 1. Or was he?

arabisha · Post by **arabisha** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:18 pm

I remember thinking as I was reading that SRD wanted his readers to sympathize with Angus more than I actually could. Angus was still Angus in the end. When he was finally forced to stop running and face his fears it DID create in him the ability to empathize with others which was a big improvement for him and more than a lot of the other characters. However, the poor chap was born to be damaged and probably went as far as he could go.

Post by **Dragonlily** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:25 am

He's a person person. We all have our flaws and strong points. Angus's are just a little more titanic than most people's.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:32 am

I think he became a some what better person... But he could still kill with no problems... He did with Fanser and his voice implanted guards.

arabisha · Post by **arabisha** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:58 pm

arrggh, I feel bad now for being so judgemental in my above post. I forgot how awful his entry into the world really was. And I guess that's always a danger. There's no such thing as a level playing field when comparing people. Having never been shown any compassion or human decency its no wonder that he was an animal. I think probably his drive for survival left no room for it in any case. His prolonged exposure to Morn might have been the single longest span of time in his life for talking, learning about people and interacting.
I don't know if Angus could have been much different because his case is so extreme but it does make me wonder about people. Why is it that two somewhat similarly damaged people can take opposite routes? On one hand they can develop a sensitivity to others' hurts and on the other they can become just the opposite. Is it simply the degree or is it choice?

Post by **amanibhavam** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:47 am

the difference may lie in that Angus was exposed to brutality in the very first months/years of his life, which is a determining fact for anybody's later years

Morn had a loving and caring childhood; whatever happens to you later, you can always base your soul unconciously on that

anyway, I do not think it was the intention of SRD to "redeem" Angus to any extent; Angus became in peace with himself by the end, and that helped him to shed some of his fears

also he got a kind of a "just" punishment: he got to be exposed almost precisely to the same crime as that which he forced on Morn

Post by **Revan** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:29 am

I thought it was just what happened to him as well...

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:29 pm

Yeah, I agree. Angus gained perspective by the end. And despite what others think, I believe that he responded positively to that perspective. His abillity to kill the bad guy at the end was totally different in my eyes to how he started out.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:33 pm

I think so to... I don't think he would put a Zone Implant in anyone again.. or torture anyone anymore... I just don't think that's the way he is any more.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:18 pm

Right. The main reason he did that stuff was so he could exert some control, and he needed that to prove he had control. Now that he's build like a tank, he doesn't have to prove anything. Plus, the acts of heroism at the end changed him; made him see what he could be. And having a kid changes you, too.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:32 pm

do you think he loved Davis by the end?

Post by **birdandbear** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:58 pm

I don't think he'd made it that far yet, but I think he was on his way. Angus had never known love in his life. Never been loved by anyone, never felt love for anyone. It was a completely foreign concept for him. But I think something in him retained it's human needs, it was just so encapsulated in defenses that he was unaware of his own spiritual penury. And then, through Morn's unwilling influence, his shell began to crack and breathe a little. It was a surprise to him, and he didn't know what to make of it, but it kept getting worse (better) and by the end of book 5, he wasn't quite capable of love as normal people know it, but I think he was getting close. He felt things for Morn and Davies, and even his crew, that he never felt before. Concern, affection, respect....I like to think that he eventually came to some sort of peace with himself, even if he was never able to see Morn and Davies again, I hope he was able to begin somewhat normal relationships with new people....

Post by **Revan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:06 pm

I think that entire passage was very well said... I agree with all of that.

Post by **birdandbear** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:08 pm

Post by **Revan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:09 pm

your welcome

Post by **krycek** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:58 pm

having only just finished book 5 IMO angus is a pretty good guy at the end, sure he still kills but not in cold blood and only because he has to, and by leaving people alive he is threating his own safety. and he had a choice about whether he went along with dios to save humanity, admitedly not much of a choice but he still went along and did his part. and by saving dios in the first place he was showing he was a good person, morn was prepared to sacrifice vector and davies to save humanity, and they were both prepared to go along and do that. it was only through angus' intervention that they didnt. i also thing that what angus did was unforgivable as i said in another post, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a good guy at the end IMO

Post by **Revan** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:49 am

Good post.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

What kind of person is Angus at the end of book 5?

What kind of person is Angus at the end of book 5?