whats with yoda

Post by **Sheol** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:38 am

is it just me or is yoda just confusing. he has that backwards speech. is it supposed to make him sound wise. if it is, it doesnt, he is just confusing. any body who takes him as really wise is not looking into things and is being fooled. maybe he is just a fake.

Post by **matrixman** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:16 am

Curious. No trouble had I understanding Yoda. A matter simply of adjusting to speech of his. Depends wisdom not on phrasing of words.

Yoda: "Judge me by my sentences do you?"

Post by **Revan** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:02 am

LOL Matrixman!

I don't think he was that wise at all, really... because the way most Jedi think is very linear... If I've spelt that word correctly

Post by **Edinburghemma** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:41 am

Yoda is an anomoly, a tiny and vapid man, with no grammar, yet a mean thing with a stick. Oh, hang on that's not an anomoly, that's Darth.

Post by **Sheol** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:38 pm

i agree you can agust your speech but if you are really listening to what he sais it isnt wise so why go to the trouble of making him sound that way other than it is different

Post by **aTOMiC** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:31 pm

Matrixman wrote:Curious. No trouble had I understanding Yoda. A matter simply of adjusting to speech of his. Depends wisdom not on phrasing of words.

Yoda: "Judge me by my sentences do you?"

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAH. YOU MAKE ME LAUGH!!!!!!

Anyway. Yoda's "wisdom" is derived from a variety of known philosophies that should be easily accessible in spite of the odd way in which he chooses to phrase them. I get Yoda. :LOLS:

Post by **Revan** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:07 am

No... even if he phrased them right... I don't think that he is that wise... The Jedi are too narrow minded... they can't think outside the box.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:50 pm

Well, he was wise enough to kick Dooku's butt, hide from the Emperor and Vader, hide Vaders children, and train one to defeat the Empire.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:40 pm

I agree, dAN. Yoda is a sick wicked, dude.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:16 pm

Sick wicked. Ahh, our resident Adam Sandler fan has spoken. I think we shouldn't judge Yoda too harshly; his enemy was one of great power, both political and Force-wise. His enemy was able to hide in plain sight. Any move made by the Jedi was exploited by their enemy. And the biggest hurdle was that George Lucas set him up to fail.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:30 pm

No fail did he!

Post by **matrixman** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:04 am

TOM C mentioned earlier about Yoda's wisdom being derived from various philosophies. Whether Sheol cares or doesn't care, one of those philosophies is that of Taoism. It's a religious/philosophical tradition that has shaped Chinese life for the last 2,000 years.

Anyway, in the context of Star Wars, the Tao can be interpreted as a force that pervades the universe. It is the source of the universe, but it also is the universe. Just like the Force is "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

A poem in the Tao-te Ching series of writings describes the Tao in this way:

The Tao is like a bellows: it is empty yet infinitely capable.
The more you use it, the more it produces;
The more you talk of it, the less you understand.

This idea of doing rather than thinking about doing is realized in the scene where Luke tells Yoda he'll "try" to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp. Yoda replies: "No. Do or do not. There is no try." But Luke fails anyway--he thought about it too much. Don't think about it, man, just DO it. Which Yoda does and proceeds to make Luke look like an idiot by effortlessly raising the ship with the Force. Yes, Yoda knows his Tao.

I think I've shown with this example that I have some grasp on what I'm talking about. Now it's up to Sheol to demonstrate that he knows what he's talking about.

YO-DA! YO-DA! YO-DA!

Post by **Revan** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:32 am

Great post!

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:21 pm

Yes, excellent post! You da man, Matrix!

Post by **aTOMiC** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:28 pm

MM, I had a feeling you'd say something like that.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Post by **Sheol** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:30 am

Ah yes, Tao Te Ching.

Limitless
The Way is a limitless vessel;
Used by the self, it is not filled by the world;
It cannot be cut, knotted, dimmed or stilled;
Its depths are hidden, ubiquitous and eternal;
I don't know where it comes from;
It comes before nature.

I guess this is what you were trying to say about the force. Or the force is like duck tape, it has a light and a dark side and it holds the world togeter. Which ever you choose. Here is another one for you.

Mystery
Looked at but cannot be seen - it is beneath form;
Listened to but cannot be heard - it is beneath sound;
Held but cannot be touched - it is beneath feeling;
These depthless things evade definition,
And blend into a single mystery.

In its rising there is no light,
In its falling there is no darkness,
A continuous thread beyond description,
Lining what does not exist;
Its form formless,
Its image nothing,
Its name silence;
Follow it, it has no back,
Meet it, it has no face.

Attend the present to deal with the past;
Thus you grasp the continuity of the Way,
Which is its essence.

So there you go. I am thinking that the Way is the force and that the Jedi order has formed thier own Toa similer to this. I do not believe that Yoda is the only one who who goes by this.

Darth Reven said:

No... even if he phrased them right... I don't think that he is that wise... The Jedi are too narrow minded... they can't think outside the box.

Arent all Jedi trained to be this way, it seems they are. They are all calm and cool in all types of situations (except for padawans(i dont know how to spell that one so sorry)), it is like that in the following verse.

Calm
Gravity is the source of lightness,
Calm, the master of haste.

A lone traveller will journey all day, watching over his belongings;
Only safe in his own bed may he lose them in sleep.

So the captain of a great vessel should not act lightly or hastily.
Acting lightly, he loses sight of the world,
Acting hastily, he loses control of himself.

The captain can not treat his great ship as a small boat;
Rather than glitter like jade
He must stand like stone.

Also they never are excessivly violent or cruel and they are wholesome in thier victories (except for Anakin). And the Sith also follow part of this. Another one to prove my point.

Violence
Powerful men are well advised not to use violence,
For violence has a habit of returning;
Thorns and weeds grow wherever an army goes,
And lean years follow a great war.

A general is well advised
To achieve nothing more than his orders:
Not to take advantage of his victory.
Nor to glory, boast or pride himself;
To do what is dictated by necessity,
Not by choice.

For even the strongest force will weaken with time,
And then its violence will return, and kill it.

And now we get to the fun of the Jedi mind trick, i think it is probibly enforced by the force but this it probibly the basis of the trick.

Compassion
Compassion is the finest weapon and best defence.
If you would establish harmony,
Compassion must surround you like a fortress.

Therefore,
A good soldier does not inspire fear;
A good fighter does not display aggression;
A good conqueror does not engage in battle;
A good leader does not exercise authority.

This is the value of unimportance;
This is how to win the cooperation of others;
This to how to build the same harmony that is in nature.

Here is what I think is the opposite of Yoda.

Individuality
My words are easy to understand
And my actions are easy to perform
Yet no other can understand or perform them.

My words have meaning; my actions have reason;
Yet these cannot be known and I cannot be known.

We are each unique, and therefore valuable;
Though the sage wears coarse clothes, his heart is jade.

If you wan't wo hear more quotes from Tao Te Ching just ask.

Post by **matrixman** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:42 am

Rather than act like the lord of the manor,
I would rather behave like a guest.

*bows to Sheol*

Lest I offend other Star Wars fans who have their own strong convictions, I should stress that Lucas blends a broad range of beliefs into his mix. Taoism is but one. Yoda could be seen as a Zen master as well (with walking stick to complete the picture). Even the name "Yoda" clearly has a Japanese ring to it and not Chinese. And though the Force seems analoguous to the Tao, the Jedi themselves are clearly modelled after the samurai. Even the word "Jedi" is derived from the Japanese words jidai and geki, a phrase meaning period drama. (Score 20 geek points for yourself if you knew that.

)

In addition to all the Oriental philosophy, which is more or less passive in nature, Lucas includes the more assertive Christian ethic of responsibility and self-sacrifice. Redemption of the soul. (Luke reaches the good in his father. Vader sacrifices himself to destroy the Emperor, thus redeeming himself and fulfilling his destiny to bring "balance to the Force." Hmm...balance? The Tao? Yin & Yang? DOH!)

Also, the phrase "May the Force be with you" is analogous to the Christian saying, "May the Lord be with you."

Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to be clever. Just making the point that no one single belief system dominates Star Wars, a quality that gives the story its universality.

Wow, all this over a little green guy. Or is he more turquoise?

Post by **Sheol** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:22 pm

No my friend, you do not bow to me. You also know much, much more than many. You made several good points and they make sence. You deserve to be bowed to.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

whats with yoda

whats with yoda