What makes a sci-fi/fantasy villain great?

Post by **DukkhaWaynhim** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:11 am

I have my own ideas about this subject, but I wanted to put this question out for discussion: with all of the books and movies we've experienced over the months/years, what is our collective opinion as to the qualities that make a villain not ok, not good, but great?

DW
[Weird, warped, and Wa-hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!]

Post by **matrixman** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:20 am

Post by **Brinn** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:24 am

interestingly enough I would say that the true measure of a villain lies in the connection that the viewer/reader has with the aggrieved characters. If we connect and feel for the main characters than anything done to them by the villain will resonate more forcefully with us. Let me provide an example: some of my favorite villains in the movies are from the movie Braveheart. The english are despicable and I hated them intensely [(at least in that movie

]. But that was because I felt so strongly for william wallace and his innocent bride who was murdered. Certainly there are more despicable and truly evil villains in literature and film but the passionate and emotional response that movie generated in me surpassed most other reactions to any other villains. In summary, I believe that it is our connection to and empathy for the main character that helps generate the truly heartfelt emotional responses when they are wronged. Hope that makes some sense

Post by **Worm of Despite** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:25 am

Motive is important. And so is charisma. Someone like Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII is an example of the kind of charisma I'm talking of. Or the charisma of Alexander de Large from A Clockwork Orange. The villain must have a compelling and yet enigmatic personality--a certain cold energy that grips but you don't know why, exactly. You can only watch and be strangely impressed.

I also like my villains to be people just looking out for themselves, but as fate would have it they're going to have to ruin a few lives in order to do that. That way it's more gray and realistic, rather than black and white.

As an aside, my favorite villain is Rutger Hauer's Roy Batty, from the movie Blade Runner.

Post by **matrixman** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:43 am

Yes, Lord Foul, Roy Batty was a great character! He's a complex one. By the end of the movie, we don't really view him as a villain anymore, do we?

Post by **Worm of Despite** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:29 am

Nope. He made the movie, in fact--his last line, at the end.

Post by **DukkhaWaynhim** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:35 pm

Sometimes it's easier to look at the inverse of the question... what makes a sci-fi/fantasy villain really bad?

For me, the worst kind of villain is one whose motives I don't understand, or whose character isn't at least as strong as the protagonist. It doesn't matter how great or interesting your protagonist is if the villain is a cardboard cutout that wrings his hands in melodramatic, B-movie glee just so he can tie frail, de-liberated women to train tracks.

The absolute worst villain is the one whose entire plan unravels in a puff of kindergarten logic because he suddenly and inexplicably suffers from a massive, fatal dumb-ass attack....Hmmm, rather than shoot the protagonist in the face when I have the perfect chance, I would rather devise a really neato clock-ticking deathtrap that is infallible, except for one minor yet completely disarming flaw----oops, I just gave away the plot to each and every Bond movie

IMHO, the best villain is one whose plan was perfect, who didn't make any dumb mistakes, didn't surround himself with nincompoop henchmen, and was still beat out by the hero because the good guy's character, cause, or motivation is the better of the two, not because of some deus ex machina crap that saves the world at the last minute and in flagrant violation of the logic of the story.

DW
[Weird, warped, and Wile E. Coyote---Super Genius]

Post by **dANdeLION** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:51 pm

Cool costume. Just look at Darth Vader. So large, so dark, so evil. You liked him before he spoke a word.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:32 pm

Believable Bravado.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:05 pm

Bravado, Shatter

Post by **Rivenrock** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:19 pm

Post by **Revan** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:55 am

A good baddie has to be both evil and cool.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:11 pm

Cool how?

Post by **dANdeLION** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:33 pm

Certainly not body temperature wise. Mr. Freeze from Batman 4 just didn't cut it. Maybe 'cool' in the sense that kids wouldn't mind pretending to be him, even though they know that the kid playing the good guy will kick their butt and send them crying to mommy. That's why I could be suckered into playing Dr. Doom, but not Paste-Pot-Pete.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:53 pm

dANdeLION wrote:Certainly not body temperature wise. Mr. Freeze from Batman 4 just didn't cut it. Maybe 'cool' in the sense that kids wouldn't mind pretending to be him, even though they know that the kid playing the good guy will kick their butt and send them crying to mommy. That's why I could be suckered into playing Dr. Doom, but not Paste-Pot-Pete.

LOL! Yeah... that's pretty much it...

Post by **Nightraven** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:50 pm

Unbreakable was a great movie. Course I love comic books

the villain in that movie was great. The unknown villains that don't seem to be villains are some of the best villains around

Post by **fightingmyinstincts** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:08 am

For me, a great villain has a reason for what he's doing...he's not just evil cos we needed an evil guy...and actually, LF lacks this...he's just the villain for....the purpose of opposing the Creator, I guess...maybe we can look for some justification of Foul's actions in the last chrons?

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:13 pm

To me a great villain has to be a believable villain.

One great example is Regal Farseer in Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy. He's a snivelling, weak, weaselly little playground bully all grown up and with the power of a member of the royal family.

Lord, how fun it is to hate him!!

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

What makes a sci-fi/fantasy villain great?

What makes a sci-fi/fantasy villain great?

re