THE ONE TREE, Chapter 7 “Elemesnedene”

TWL, TOT, WGW

Moderators: Cord Hurn, danlo, dlbpharmd

Post Reply
User avatar
Dragonlily
Lord
Posts: 4186
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 4:39 pm
Location: Aparanta
Contact:

THE ONE TREE, Chapter 7 “Elemesnedene”

Post by Dragonlily »

The Elohim named Daphin has disappeared, “melted into the grass,” after announcing that Linden is the Sun-Sage and Covenant is not. The cat’s among the pigeons for sure. Linden denies the Elohim pronouncement in fear. Covenant knows Daphin is right, and he is infuriated – “His features were acute with self-disgust.”

But Covenant doesn’t have time to go from simmer to explosion, because Daphin is back, bringing with her another Elohim, this one named Chant and marked with malice. No one but Linden heard that they were heralded by the return of bells chiming.

The Elohim are mystified. Their vision has seen that the Sun-Sage and ring-wielder are the same being. Covenant is angry at the implied pressure to give his ring to Linden. Daphin suggests solutions:
”Perhaps there is a merging to come. Or a death.”
Which can’t be expected to make Covenant any happier or feel any more useful. But leadership of the group has insensibly passed to Linden, and it is Linden who accepts the invitation of the Elohim into Elemesnedene.

As the group walks up the River Callowwail (lovely name), Linden is trying to deal with her feelings of disorientation. The importance the Elohim have given her makes her feel more helpless and lost than ever. The sounds of bells make her feel like she is missing something important.

They reach the maidan or mound from which the river fountains. Here is the entrance to Elemesnedene, and here is where SRD starts making even his own normal language sound simple, using mystifying vocabulary to convey the Elohim otherworldliness.
The water looked as edifying as crystal, as clinquant* as faery promises; but the travertine it had formed and dampened appeared obdurate, uncompromising. The mound seemed to huddle unto itself as if it could not be moved by any appeal. The whorled and skirling shapes on its sides – cut and deposited by ages of spray, the old scrollwork of the water – gave it an elusive eloquence...

*clinquant - glittering, as fool's gold
The Elohim climb the mound and disappear, and the bells disappear, too. Linden seizes the chance to confirm that none of the others hear bells. Again she has to trust her own senses before those of other people.

Entering through the fountain takes them into a whole different world, invisible from the Callowwail meadows. SRD describes wonder upon wonder – all of it visual. I get a distinct sense, right from the start, that these visual beauties are meaningless.
Nearby grew a silver sapling. Though not tall, it was as stately as a prince; and its leaves danced about its limbs without touching them. Like flakes of precious metal, the leaves formed a chiaroscuro around the tree, casting glints and spangles as they swirled.

On the other side, a fountain spewed glodes of color and light. Bobbing upward, they broke into silent rain and were inhaled again by the fountain.
No suggestion of an emotional resonance or transcendence of any kind. A clear case of “beauty is only skin deep”. If this is what SRD intended, it is very adroitly handled indeed.

The group becomes aware that these beauties are the Elohim in other forms. While humans and giants are awed by the power of beings who can transform like this, they are vulnerable to the Elohim demand that each member of the party be tested, alone. The Haruchai are not. Each Haruchai insists on accompanying the human he is responsible for. When Linden sees the Haruchai are ready to fight these hopelessly powerful beings, she makes an agreement that they will be deposited, unharmed, at the foot of the fountain, outside of Elemesnedene. Cail’s look accuses Linden of betraying the Haruchai.
For all its amazements, the clachan suddenly seemed a cold and joyless place, where beings of inbred life and convoluted intent mimed an exuberance they were unable to share.
Surrounded by “sportive and gratuitous incarnations” as she is, Linden feels lost. Her earthsight cannot read the Elohim. But she is determined to live up to Covenant’s resolve, so it is a relief that the Elohim “test” is to allow her to ask whatever questions she likes. She is given the full story on Elohim superiority and self-sufficiency.
”You don’t pay attention to each other? This” – she indicated Morninglight’s watershow – “isn’t intended to communicate something?”

The question seemed to give Daphin a gentle surprise. “What is the need? I also am the heart of the Earth, as he is. Wherefore should I desire his truth, when I may freely seek my own?”
Linden is perceiving a coldness beyond the radiance and the power. The gentle Daphin says,
“That you should presume to judge us at all is incondign and displeasing. We are the heart of the earth and not to be judged.”
As Linden realizes exactly how powerful the Elohim are, suddenly the bells speak so she can understand.
“We must hasten, lest this Sun-Sage learn to hear us too acutely.”
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
User avatar
danlo
Lord
Posts: 20838
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:29 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by danlo »

Good job Joy! Thanks very much for stepping in for Infelice on such short notice.

The clachan is so wild and etheral yet it also seems so sterile and barren. So the Elohim are the Wurd of the Earth, Earthpower incarnate? They are definately powerful as they difuse the attacking Haruchai, yet somehow they seem strangely limited. It's an interesting point Linden makes about the Elohim's total omission of Vain. I'm trying to understand and like Chant more this time around-but it isn't easy, all he has to do is utter, "You stand among those who surpass you." and I get as pissy as Covenant. :wink:

Truly Chant keeps some kind of cynical, condesending order to the flow of things in this mercurial opaline fishbowl (located where?) where all roads lead to the center. Apparently he has explored more of his dark side than other Elohim but many are beginning to follow him. This obviously indicates that Earthpower is beginning to be seriously hurt by Foul and the Sunbane, but to me I feel it goes deeper for Chant. My theory is that a number of Elohim dive deeper into self and the Earth during certain conditions. One of these being the conditions that determine the Celebration of Spring and that they can appear in the Land, in diminished capacity, as wraiths. And that Chant's dark place opened up first when he was singed by an Ur-Vile in Lord Foul's Bane.
Joy wrote:using mystifying vocabulary to convey the Elohim otherworldliness
Indeed! These are fantastic descriptions but this is one of the major chapters in the series where you need a dictionary with you at all times. For instance:

catenulate: arranged like a chain
corybantic: orgiastic dancing found in Mythos
ophite: long, flat, narrow crystals of plagioliase feldspar embedded in augite 8O
and vlei: I couldn't even find vlei (then again I don't have an OED in front of me right now.) I take it to mean a "water window" or a very shallow reflecting pool.

All roads lead to the center but no one might encounter another--Linden's feeling about the fate of the last visting Giants who elected to remain is very spooky indeed.
fall far and well Pilots!
Seafoam Understone
<i>Haruchai</i>
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:59 pm
Location: Tennessee

Post by Seafoam Understone »

Good job Joy.
What got me is wondering exactly how Daphin spoke the phrase "We are it's Wurd..." Donaldson describes it but it still comes off kinda vague to me.
Likewise I agree Danlo that it is spooky about the "missing Giants". Even more so that the First didn't challenge the "simple explaination for their lack of appearance. If Giants, being "long-lived" surely they would have (or even their "few" descendants") survived. Okay mebbe not after 3K years but hey... it's the land of the Elohim ...
Spoiler
earth-power incaranate
even THEY could've done something for the giants. Or is it in their arrogance that they chose not to do anything.
Chant comes off as the consumate Arse-hole. His superior attitude (yeah right why SHOULDN'T he have one?) was very grating. I've met humans with just like distain for those they felt were "lower/inferior" to themselves.
:-x
I think I'd probably been (just as) pissed when dismissed by the Elohim as not being who I "thought" I was as they did to TC. Of all the nerve!
Also what got me was the Haruchai's (seeming) inability to recognize the Elohim for the power they had. Or were they inwardly testing/measuring themselves against them. Seems they found out the hard way when they were "removed".

This and preceeding chapter(s) give the story-line a "MORE" etheral feel to it. A dream/nightmare/dream like quality. It made for interesting reading.

Wonder how it would translate to film?
remember the Oath Of Peace!

https://ralph.rigidtech.com
User avatar
matrixman
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 8361
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:24 am

Post by matrixman »

Seafoam, that's a good point about the Haruchai's seeming inability to recognize the Elohim's power. Mystikan has put forward a startling theory about the Elohim-Haruchai relationship (in Chap. 6 thread) that seems to shed light on this issue.

This chapter is where we see the first clear sign of trouble between Linden and the Haruchai. Linden is trying very hard to maintain the peace between her companions and the Elohim, but the uncompromising attitude of the Haruchai isn't helping. This quality of the Haruchai is admirable in most situations, but here it becomes a liability. It doesn't make for successful negotiation and diplomacy.

The Haruchai see their guardianship of their companions--as they see many a thing--in absolute terms: either protect them all the time, or don't bother at all. They see Linden's attempt to appease the Elohim only as a betrayal. It doesn't occur to the Haruchai that Linden also is protecting the company in her way, by peaceful negotiation.

Elemesnedene itself seems more like a state of mind than a physical "place." It's like a weird quantum universe where potentiality rules. The Elohim represent that potential quantum energy: they conjure the "reality" of their place for those who visit them. Linden's walk with Daphin goes nowhere and everywhere in Elemesnedene. Reminds me of the cosmological principle in science: on large scales the universe is the same everywhere in space--it has no uniquely preferred location (the universe is homogenous), and it looks the same in all directions (the universe is isotropic).
User avatar
kastenessen
Giantfriend
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:59 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by kastenessen »

Good job Joy! Such a short notice and all...

They are indeed a condescending and obnoxious race these Elohim...and mysterious. So mysterious they don't even try to be understood, speaking in riddles. No wonder "hard-feelings" arise...

Regarding the ring Chant says...
"We have no taste for untruth" - His tone was satin - "and your words are manifestly untrue. Deny not what you are. It does not please us. Explain rather why this man holds possesion of your white ring.
The Elohim are powerful but not wise. Their vision does not succeed in penetrating there are different truths, that there are paradoxes and those always surround TC. The have percieved truth and this truth is the only one that counts. In this way they are similar to the Haruchai; they are absolute in their own belief...I think it's also quite funny that though the Elohim seem tremendeously powerful, TC in his usual stubbornness rejects them and shows no respect whatsoever, and why should he?...
Perhaps our vision has been incomplete....Perhaps there is a merging to come. Or a death.
Some of them are more introspective and self-reflective than others. Daphin seems to be Chant's opposite...but if you look at what Linden and Daphin talk about there seem to be more self-contemplation than communication among them...

Regarding the nature of the Elohim...If you can do anything, what can a creature of pure Earthpower do but play. Linden was thinking in the same lines...
Was this entire display performed for no other reason than the simple joy of wonder and play

kasten
User avatar
Durris
Giantfriend
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Hamden, CT, USA

Post by Durris »

Joy wrote, quoting SRD:
”Perhaps there is a merging to come. Or a death.”
Spoiler
Actually, there will be BOTH before it's all over.
Joy wrote:Which can’t be expected to make Covenant any happier or feel any more useful. But leadership of the group has insensibly passed to Linden, and it is Linden who accepts the invitation of the Elohim into Elemesnedene.
This is a marked change from Linden's position heretofore: not only has she been deferring to Covenant (both because of his power and because he knows the Land from his previous visits while it's completely new to her), but she's from time to time felt entirely unnecessary. (Remember in TWL when she learns that Covenant had used his wild magic to heal his bleeding wrists after the soothtell--she says, "Then you don't need me!" and cries.) After going back and forth between feeling useless and seeing herself as truly evil (in the black moods and under the influence of Gibbon's attention), suddenly she's been shoved into leadership. In "The Questsimoon," Covenant had told her,
Everything Gibbon said to you is a lie. A way to defuse the danger you represent. Make you think you don't have a chance. When the truth is that you're the biggest threat to him there is.
In fact, every supernatural being Linden has encountered--Gibbon, Vain, now the Elohim--has responded to her as having power they could perceive. It's hidden only from herself--and therefore, from the humans around her.
...

I remembered less of this part of the story than some other portions of the Second Chronicles; I had had only a dim memory that something terrible happened with the Elohim. When I reread this chapter I knew why I had blocked it from memory: the expulsion of the Haruchai is outrageous.
SRD wrote:As Cail placed himself protectively at [Linden's] side opposite Daphin, she found a keen comfort in his presence.
Solidity amidst the ethereal, forthrightness amidst convolutions of subtlety, fealty against self-centeredness, good faith against covert malice.
SRD wrote: They had not reached the bottom of the slope when Chant said sharply, "No."
I hadn't remembered that it was Chant who ordered that the Haruchai had to separate from those they protected. That explains a lot: I think the darkness in him was offended by their rectitude.
danlo wrote:This obviously indicates that Earthpower is beginning to be seriously hurt by Foul and the Sunbane, but to me I feel it goes deeper for Chant. My theory is that a number of Elohim dive deeper into self and the Earth during certain conditions. One of these being the conditions that determine the Celebration of Spring and that they can appear in the Land, in diminished capacity, as wraiths. And that Chant's dark place opened up first when he was singed by an Ur-Vile in Lord Foul's Bane.
Fascinating thought! 8)
Seafoam Understone wrote:Also what got me was the Haruchai's (seeming) inability to recognize the Elohim for the power they had.
Inability? Or unwillingness? I think maybe the latter. They don't acknowledge, or defer to, any magical entity by reason of its power alone, however that power surpasses them. Kevin and Revelstone had won their ancestors' respect not just by being stronger, but also by being morally worthy of respect. Not a conspicuous quality in the Elohim at present.
Matrixman wrote:This chapter is where we see the first clear sign of trouble between Linden and the Haruchai. Linden is trying very hard to maintain the peace between her companions and the Elohim, but the uncompromising attitude of the Haruchai isn't helping. This quality of the Haruchai is admirable in most situations, but here it becomes a liability. It doesn't make for successful negotiation and diplomacy.

The Haruchai see their guardianship of their companions--as they see many a thing--in absolute terms: either protect them all the time, or don't bother at all. They see Linden's attempt to appease the Elohim only as a betrayal. It doesn't occur to the Haruchai that Linden also is protecting the company in her way, by peaceful negotiation.
Indeed; diplomacy isn't in their lexicon.
SRD wrote:[Linden] needed Cail with her. And the extravagance of his outrage was vivid behind the flatness of his face.
Once again Linden's health sense sees through Haruchai reserve...
SRD wrote:Linden caught one piercing glance from Cail--a look of reproach as if he had been betrayed. His voice lingered in her after he was gone. "We do not trust these Elohim."
Every Haruchai's worst nightmare--a direct order to leave his post: authority overriding loyalty. A potential replication of Kevin--or that is how it would have seemed.
...
SRD wrote:[Daphin is speaking] Morninglight performs self-contemplation. He enacts the truth of his being as he beholds it, and thus he explores that truth, beholding and enacting new truth.
Even to a certified introvert like me, that sounds dangerously self-absorbed--magically onanistic, as it were. Most traditions on real-world contemplation speak of it as beholding another rather than oneself, though who or what is beheld differs.
SRD wrote:[Linden is speaking] That's not what Chant thinks. He thinks his truth is the only one there is.
And here is the danger of self-contemplation: becoming a law unto oneself, answerable to no one.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
User avatar
matrixman
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 8361
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:24 am

Post by matrixman »

Durris wrote: I remembered less of this part of the story than some other portions of the Second Chronicles; I had had only a dim memory that something terrible happened with the Elohim. When I reread this chapter I knew why I had blocked it from memory: the expulsion of the Haruchai is outrageous.

Every Haruchai's worst nightmare--a direct order to leave his post: authority overriding loyalty. A potential replication of Kevin--or that is how it would have seemed.
Whoa, that sums it up! The thought of being dismissed--made useless--must indeed be a nightmare for a Haruchai (or for anyone, but especially a Haruchai). Ordering a Haruchai to leave his post is a terrible thing to do. Thanks, Durris. I was so busy sympathizing with Linden that I forgot the Haruchai have feelings too...
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23560
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

One of my favorite moments from both Chrons:
"No." Among the Giants, Covenant stood like imminent fire, facing the Elohim with wild magic poised in every muscle. His passion dominated the knoll. In a low voice, as dangerous as a viper, he articulated, "You can discount me. That's been done before. But the Haruchai are my friends. You will not harm them."
How unbearably cool can Covenant be when he wants to be!! :D
"That choice is not yours to make!" Chant retorted. But now it was he who sounded petulant and diminished.
"petulant and diminished" indeed!
snot-nosed little shit!
Sorry danlo.

Matrixman wrote:
Durris wrote:I remembered less of this part of the story than some other portions of the Second Chronicles; I had had only a dim memory that something terrible happened with the Elohim. When I reread this chapter I knew why I had blocked it from memory: the expulsion of the Haruchai is outrageous.

Every Haruchai's worst nightmare--a direct order to leave his post: authority overriding loyalty. A potential replication of Kevin--or that is how it would have seemed.
Whoa, that sums it up! The thought of being dismissed--made useless--must indeed be a nightmare for a Haruchai (or for anyone, but especially a Haruchai). Ordering a Haruchai to leave his post is a terrible thing to do. Thanks, Durris. I was so busy sympathizing with Linden that I forgot the Haruchai have feelings too...
As in the past, I'm not happy with these thoughts. Although the Haruchai weren't following orders here, they did in the 1st Chrons, and certainly when Kevin sent them to safety. I don't see that the Vow was one of obedience. They Vowed to guard/protect. Nothing about following orders. "Hey buddy, I'm protecting you. You wanna shut up so I can concentrate?!"
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23560
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Durris wrote:Joy wrote, quoting SRD:
”Perhaps there is a merging to come. Or a death.”
Spoiler
Actually, there will be BOTH before it's all over.
Spoiler
Right? They merge their brains out! :D
Durris wrote:Solidity amidst the ethereal, forthrightness amidst convolutions of subtlety, fealty against self-centeredness, good faith against covert malice.
Does everyone else here love Durris like I do? :D Beautifully said!!
Durris wrote:
danlo wrote:This obviously indicates that Earthpower is beginning to be seriously hurt by Foul and the Sunbane, but to me I feel it goes deeper for Chant. My theory is that a number of Elohim dive deeper into self and the Earth during certain conditions. One of these being the conditions that determine the Celebration of Spring and that they can appear in the Land, in diminished capacity, as wraiths. And that Chant's dark place opened up first when he was singed by an Ur-Vile in Lord Foul's Bane.
Fascinating thought! 8)
YES!! Wow, nicely done, danlo!


OK, it's been mentioned, and quoted elsewhere, but let's have the full quote here:
"Where are we going?"

"Going?" replied Daphin lightly. "We are not 'going' at all. We merely walk." When Linden stared at her, she continued, "This is Elemesnedene itself. Here there is no other 'where' to which we might go."

Deliberately, Linden exaggerated her surface incomprehension. "There has to be. We're moving. My friends are somewhere else. How will we get back to them? How will we find that Elohimfest Chant mentioned?"

"Ah, Sun-Sage," Daphin chuckled. Her laugh sounded like a moonrise in this place which had neither moon nor sun. "In Elemesnedene all ways are one. We will meet with your companions when that meeting has ripened. And there will be no need to seek the place of the Elohimfest. It will be held at the center, and in Elemesnedene all places are the center. We walk from the center to the center, and where we now walk is also the center."
This is, perhaps, the most important lesson any of us can learn: Although we may always change and grow, we do not become more ourselves, as though there is some point when we will become complete, or somehow right. We are always completely ourselves, changing into ourselves.
We are the Würd. Morninglight swirling with color like a portrait of the clachan in metaphor. A willow leaved in butterflies. Self-contemplation.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Durris
Giantfriend
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Hamden, CT, USA

Post by Durris »

Fist and Faith wrote:Does everyone else here love Durris like I do? Beautifully said!!
:oops: :oops: :oops: Gee, Fist, you're spoiling me...
Fist and Faith wrote:This is, perhaps, the most important lesson any of us can learn: Although we may always change and grow, we do not become more ourselves, as though there is some point when we will become complete, or somehow right. We are always completely ourselves, changing into ourselves.

8O Yikes. That's profound. It's also quite different from how I had seen development heretofore: without really saying it in so many words, I had assumed that there was a "complete" or "right" self to be, "out there", to measure up to (or at times be judged, even mocked, by). There's that much of Korik in me, I suppose (complete with all the same dangers).
Your alternative vision is an inviting one.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23560
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Durris wrote:Your alternative vision is an inviting one.
And you, and everyone else, are, indeed, invited. :D I've quoted this from Richard Bach's Illusions before:
"Look at the sky."

"Pretty sky," I said.

"It is a perfect sky?"

"Well, it's always a perfect sky, Don."

"Are you telling me that even though it's changng every second, the sky is always a perfect sky?"

"Gee, I'm smart. Yes!"

"And the sea is always a perfect sea, and it's always changing, too," he said. "If perfection is stagnation, then heaven is a swamp! And the Is ain't hardly no swamp cookie."
Same with us. :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
Post Reply

Return to “2nd Chronicles”