The world of the Old Lords – mere speculation

[Ylva Kresh]

Watch out! Possible spoilers (I don’t think so, but who knows?)!

I have been thinking again If you have discussed these matters earlier, please bump those threads for me and I will edit this post!

Disclaimer:
This is of course wild speculation and I suspect you will all find great flaws in my argumentation (I admit that it is quite far-fetched). I tested some of my ideas on the people who attended our Swedish Elohim-coffée, but they were too polite to contradict me…

In chronological order:
We all know the dangers of the 7th ward, but surely someone must have given it a try before sealing it of… Since we encounter the name Damelon’s Door in there my guess is that he led an expedition there, made a crucial error and sealed the place off. It might even be so that Damelon himself took a sip, and managed to break “the Law of Parallel worlds” – thereby making it possible to summon people from another world (surely there must have been a law against that?)… If I take this idea further I guess that someone was summoned – someone that must have had influence in the naming of Kevin (his mother perhaps? Or grandgrandgrandetcmother…) – why else this name?

Then there is the eternal, and perhaps not so fundamental, question of what Foul called himself when he infiltrated Kevin’s council. My guess is that it is something in the old tongue – perhaps either Ridjeck or Thome.

And last: another question that has annoyed my brain. Where did everybody in the Land gain the knowledge of the White Gold? From Seers and Oracles? Or is possible that there were White Gold summoned earlier and that it partook and perished (possible?) in the Ritual of Desecration?

All right folks - what do you think?

[variol son]

We all know the dangers of the 7th ward, but surely someone must have given it a try before sealing it of… Since we encounter the name Damelon’s Door in there my guess is that he led an expedition there, made a crucial error and sealed the place off. It might even be so that Damelon himself took a sip, and managed to break “the Law of Parallel worlds” – thereby making it possible to summon people from another world (surely there must have been a law against that?)… If I take this idea further I guess that someone was summoned – someone that must have had influence in the naming of Kevin (his mother perhaps? Or grandgrandgrandetcmother…) – why else this name?

I think that you are awesome Ylva! I can't believe that I never considered that there would ever be a Law preventing people being summoned from other worlds. But it makes sense, since any summoning reaches beyond the Arch of Time, possibly endangering it.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[CovenantJr]

Yes, that's an excellent point, Ylva! I never made the Damelon connection, and it certainly never occurred to me that it may have once been impossible to summon from another world. It also never occurred to me -until now - that surely someone before Covenant must have been summoned. Elena knew how to summon him, so the knowledge must have been contained in one of the Wards, which in turn means Kevin must have known how. Now, it is possible that Kevin acquired this lore without ever using it, but I would imagine he did try it at some point. The Ritual of Desecration was Kevin's last resort after all else failed; presumably he must have tried summoning someone from outside "Landworld" before he was driven to that extreme. Did he deliberately try to summon a white gold weilder, knowing that this metal cannot be found in the Land? Hmmm...

Also, I think your idea that Foul named himself Ridjeck or Thome is more likely than the Jeroth theory that seems to be in favour with several members. I have always thought the Jeroth connection was tenuous at best, and if Ridjeck Thome does translate directly as Foul's Creche, it would make more sense (IMHO) for whichever of those is the appropriate word to be the name he used while on the Council.

As regards foreknowledge of the white gold: we know the Lords, both Old and New, gained their awareness of white gold from Berek, but how he found out is still something of a mystery. I am inclined to believe he had some kind of Earthpower-driven vision that revealed the existence and power of white gold; perhaps a prophecy of sorts.

[variol son]

He was prophet and oracle, so I always guessed that he had a vision.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[danlo]

My guess is that it is something in the old tongue – perhaps either Ridjeck or Thome.

Cool! Your whole topic is very cool! So that means the the stories of LF as a Lord would have to be called The Chronicles of Ridjeck

Does that also mean that TC's mother could have been Damelon's wife? (we never hear what happened to his parents...hmmmmmm )

[Ryzel]

In chronological order:
We all know the dangers of the 7th ward, but surely someone must have given it a try before sealing it of… Since we encounter the name Damelon’s Door in there my guess is that he led an expedition there, made a crucial error and sealed the place off. It might even be so that Damelon himself took a sip, and managed to break “the Law of Parallel worlds” – thereby making it possible to summon people from another world (surely there must have been a law against that?)… If I take this idea further I guess that someone was summoned – someone that must have had influence in the naming of Kevin (his mother perhaps? Or grandgrandgrandetcmother…) – why else this name?

Then there is the eternal, and perhaps not so fundamental, question of what Foul called himself when he infiltrated Kevin’s council. My guess is that it is something in the old tongue – perhaps either Ridjeck or Thome.

And last: another question that has annoyed my brain. Where did everybody in the Land gain the knowledge of the White Gold? From Seers and Oracles? Or is possible that there were White Gold summoned earlier and that it partook and perished (possible?) in the Ritual of Desecration?

All right folks - what do you think?

Ridjeck Thome - that is Fouls Creche, right. We do not really know what it means, but I have never thought that either of those names were a reference to Lord Foul himself.

Let me submit this instead: If Foul's Creche existed in the time of the old lords then they could not have known that it was 'his' place and so they would probably have named it something that had no connection to him.

I think that the creche existed in the old times, but I cannot remember any references. Anybody know something?

I do not think that Damelon himself used the 7th ward, but someone might have done so. I think, however, that they were not as concerned about that as the new lords. Perhaps the old lords knew how to repair the laws?

As for the knowledge of the old lords: that came directly from the earth itself. Berek was the earth's prophet and we can probably safely assume that everything they knew they had either from the earth itself or from other sources. My point: they did not need to test the 7th to know what it was and what it did. Same thing goes for white gold and many other things.

(An interesting possibility: Foul could have taught them to summon things form outside creation as part of his plan to destroy the arch of time. He needed white gold and made it possible for it to come into the world. The risk was that the white gold wielder might not do as he wished, but he must have considered that acceptable.)

Ryzel the gainsayer.

[Ylva Kresh]

Good points... Still not convinced in any direction though...

Another silly idea: Of course we have all considered that Covenant might acctually be Berek*. But without the white Gold (since Linden took care of the ring for him) - that would explain why he is a seer and oracle at least (most people from the future would be I suppose) and also the knowledge of the White Gold... He might have had prevented the desecration though, so it does not really fit. Or perhaps Covenant is Lord Foul: he certainly seems to know a lot about lepers... But as I recall Covenant is not so full of self-hatred in the end of the second chrons, so I suppose it would be hard for him to turn completely to despise then.

As I said: wild speculation...

*I would love the idea of that just because he says "I am not your bloody Berek...", if nothing else