Let's hear if for Mhoram!

[Believer]

Hmm. And the Elohim had grown more unwilling to act.

I don't have my books with me. After the Elohim tell Thomas and Avery about the Colossus and the Appointed sent to be/create it, it was asked why the didn't intervene in some situation. What was that situation?

They responded that they had grown less willing to act, or something like that... ??

[clarsen123]

Excellent responses! I too agree that the Elohim had become stagnant, that they were beings of pure Earthpower, therefore needed no Law. Law controls how disparate elements interreact. The Elohim prided themselves in their own self-exploration/expression of Earthpower.

I think a major aspect that has been overlooked is that Vain was created by the Demondim to make amends for past wrong. I think the true answer to the nature of the Staff of Law is in there somewhere. It's a great point that Vain absorbing Findail to create the new staff makes it's nature far different than the one made from the One Tree. I remember being confused as to how they could leave the isle of the One Tree without successfully crafting a new Staff. Plus, was Wild Magic even a factor in it's creation, or it was Vain's purpose and Findails pure Earthpower. Why did Covenant think HE had to remake the staff? Egotism? Guilt? C: All of the above? What caused Vain's wrist/ankle to turn to wood? Was that Wild Magic. Sorry I can't remember. I do remember that was pretty obvious to me as a reader, and how didn't they figure out that Vain was the new Staff for another several hundred pages.

BTW, what is a "group read", and how do they work? I don't think I want to have homework at this stage in my life, but discussing this stuff is fun, stimulating, and great exercise for my own novel. If I'm going to participate in these kind of discussions, I really need to brush up.

[duchess of malfi]

In a group read a group of people agree to read a novel. They take turns being a "read lead", and creating threads about the work, one chapter at a time. The initial thread usually summarizes the chapter, then the other readers jump on like hungry sharks and rip the chapter to bits.

Drop down to the forum called Dissecting the Land for some pretty good examples of this. We are on White Gold Wielder right now, but you can add to any previous chapters.

[CovenantJr]

What caused Vain's wrist/ankle to turn to wood? Was that Wild Magic. Sorry I can't remember. I do remember that was pretty obvious to me as a reader, and how didn't they figure out that Vain was the new Staff for another several hundred pages.

I didn't figure it out til the characters did

[Fist and Faith]

*bump* for mhoram

Who is not me this time.

heh

[Trapper]

Nice bump, F&F, I hadn't seen this thread.

There is a third alternative as you say, Fist and Faith - both Mhoram and Kevin were right. I am now leaning towards this now, for the following reasons:

1) The solving of another of Kevin's Wards after TPTP - it shows that a degree of combining took place between Kevin's Lore and the Oath of Peace. This is evidence that Mhoram was not an extremist to any position.

2) Lord Foul would have returned anyway. Yes, this is an excellent point. Despite can never be defeated from within the Arch of Time...

This thread has really made me think. The feeling I originally got was that Mhoram, if possible, would have utterly repudiated Kevins Lore at the end of the First Chronicles, having seen its destructive power (especially in the hands of Trell). The potential for Desecration put him off more than the violence per se, IMHO.

I think the people of the Land, including Mhoram, could be forgiven for thinking that Despite had indeed been defeated forever, forgetting that it had arisen in the heart of man (Berek's King), and that they could create a totally new Lore in it's absence.

Fukuyama's "The End of History" springs to mind.

I am unsure as to whether the subsequent solving of another Ward indicates that their new understanding of what had been holding them back enabled them to solve enough peaceful aspects of the first two Wards that had hitherto confounded them to find the Third.

But perhaps they were forced to revisit Kevin's Lore for destructive purposes (possibly long after Mhoram's time?) when things started to go bad again. Perhaps they had used their new Lore to make the very Shattered Hills themselves bloom, and made Kurash Plenethor look like Andelain.

But Nature is Nature. Earthpower is Earthpower. Mankind is Mankind.

Even in the Land all three find it easier to destroy than to create.

That's my two cents worth anyway.

That said, Mhoram is my favourite character and I'm definitely in the "Mhoram was right/ Kevin was wrong" camp.

IIRC there was a passage somewhere along the lines of "they say that Foul was laughing as they enacted the ritual, and that Kevin died screaming".

[Trapper]

On a more flippant note, my initial thought on seeing the title of this thread was:

Let's hear it for Mhoram!
Let's give the boy a hand.
Let's hear it for the High Lord
Aaah, you gotta understand.

But that's just cause I can't get those crappy songs of the '80's out of my head sometimes.

[Trapper]

Also F&F, I wouldn't want to be one of your copies of the Chronicles.

Poor 'lil paperbacks.

Love your always well-placed quotes.

[Fist and Faith]

They do tend to wear out.

[matrixman]

On a more flippant note, my initial thought on seeing the title of this thread was:

Let's hear it for Mhoram!
Let's give the boy a hand.
Let's hear it for the High Lord
Aaah, you gotta understand.

But that's just cause I can't get those crappy songs of the '80's out of my head sometimes.

I liked that song, though. Nothing wrong with '80s music in my book...

[Trapper]

On a more flippant note, my initial thought on seeing the title of this thread was:

Let's hear it for Mhoram!
Let's give the boy a hand.
Let's hear it for the High Lord
Aaah, you gotta understand.

But that's just cause I can't get those crappy songs of the '80's out of my head sometimes.

I liked that song, though. Nothing wrong with '80s music in my book...

I was more a "Boys of Summer" type guy in the '80s. Plus Van Halen and Satriani on the guitar front. U2's "Unforgettable Fire" is my album (and song) of that decade.

[ur-monkey]

Deneice Williams?

[Trapper]

Deneice Williams?

Possibly. I can't even remember the movie the song was from. I'll go and Wiki "Footloose" to check a hunch.

How odd that we posted at the same minute!

[Buckarama]

Denise Williams, yes you are correct and I think you'll even get a gold star or a smilie face

[Trapper]

Yep, you're right.

You get a bonus 10 points if you can name the jumpsuited individual who had a hit around the same time with "What Is Love (anyway)".

hint: He did that '70s-'80s thing where you'd play a different set of multi-layered keyboards (set at a right-angle) with each hand.

[Trapper]

Ahh, we have a real contest now.

Although Buckarama, ur-monkey did get a rather odd spelling of the first name right first-time so ur-monkey wins if you don't answer the bonus question first.

*Rubbing my hands together with Machiavellian glee at the growing tension*

[Trapper]

*buzzer* *audience groans*

It was Howard Jones, who also had another hit that year (1984) with "Like To Get To Know You Well".

I'm sure we all wish that the Watch could be more like a Game Show.

Sorry.

[ur-monkey]

And also 'Hide and Seek'.

I'll stop now.



I would have got that one in time, but my manager walked in to tell me I wasn't being made redundant after all!

[Trapper]

And also 'Hide and Seek'.

I'll stop now.



I would have got that one in time, but my manager walked in to tell me I wasn't being made redundant after all!

I hope your agent took full advantage there.

Anyway, you won by default. Buckarama needed to answer the bonus qusestion first to overtake you.

Insert your loved one in this quote:

Yo, _______! We did it!!!

[iQuestor]

why dont you guys move this to the trivia thread