The Ravers Mother ... my speculation

[King Elessar 8]

I know there is always talk here about where the Ravers came from... Elohim, humans corrupted by a Bane, simple demons, and so forth... this is an idea that occurred to me last night, and one that I have not heard discussed at this forum so far, although it is certainly possible it may have been... I have had more than one "great" idea, only to find someone else had already thought of it!

My theory on the Ravers is ....

Spoiler

That the woman Kastenessen loved is their mother - they are the offspring of what might be termed an "unholy" union between an Elohim and a human woman. Among other things, this might explain why the Elohim were so offended by the realtionship, and also explain exactly how Kastenessens love "harmed" the woman - a point never really explained. It also explains something else - the Ravers would presumably not know anything about thier father, or that he was an Elohim, so the only information Mhoram would have been given when he touched Sheol is about their mother, and not much at that, since Im betting she died in birth...

I made this a spoiler, since I have no idea if any of this comes up in "Runes" or not (not having read it, natch)... I am under the impression from SRD that the Ravers origin is at least mentioned in it... I will be curious to see if I am correct.

[duchess of malfi]

That's as good an idea as any that I have heard -- and if the origin of the Ravers is in Runes, I hope no one will spoil it!

[danlo]

That's one I've always considered in the back of my mind. I have two reservations, however. 1) It seems to me that it would take more than just that to corrupt Earthpower incarnate and create that degree of evil (then again Foul may have had alot to say re: direction and grooming of such: as SRD once said '...the Ravers don't view themselves as evil.') 2) Merewives may be dangerous but I can't associate the two.
(Ok, now I'm confused I was trying to refute your arguement, but may have, somehow, added teeth to it )

[CovenantJr]

I like that theory, Elessar. That never occurred to me, but it seems as likely as any idea I've heard, and more likely than most.

[King Elessar 8]

Im glad that spoiler was removed! It took a lot of willpower to not look at it - now I wont be tempted.

[Creator]

I think it's a great idea. However, in the One Tree the Elohim in discussing the "Colossus of the Fall" speak of Loving the Forest and helping against the "hate [that] rose against the forrest". I would think they either would have shied away from this story or told it differently if your theory is true.

I have another theory but I could only discuss it in the Runes section with "spoiler" tags.

Spoiler

And, no Runes does not tell or even hint at their origins.

[Fist and Faith]

I like your theory, Estel. I'm not at all bothered by danlo's second point. After all, Loki was the father of Fenrir, Hel, and Jormungand, as well as the mother of Sleipnir. Lots of different possibilities when beings of power have babies.

[Revan]

I don't think the theory is correct... it's a good idea though.

[duchess of malfi]

So Fist, perhaps you are thinking that the daughters were mer-wives, and the sons Ravers?

[Revan]

I doubt it, I think it would have been mentioned...

[wayfriend]

"But when [the Creator] was done, and his pride had tasted its first satisfaction, he looked closely at the Earth, thinking to gratify himself with the sight-and he was dismayed. For, behold! Buried deep in the Earth through no will or forming of his were banes of destruction, powers virile enough to rip his masterwork into dust.

"Then he understood or remembered. Perhaps he found Despite itself beside him, misguiding his hand. Or perhaps he saw the harm in himself. It does not matter.

What other explanation is necessary for the Illearth Stone, the croyel, or even the ravers?

[A Gunslinger]

My theory of the Ravers is that their malice, their dank vile evil, was inherent to the creation of the earth when the creator made it so blindly. His pride allowed the instrusion.

It is my belief that Foul and the Ravers were articulated rather than born. Was this initial articualtion completed by the procreation of the the Elohim and a mortal? I doubt it. It would seem that the mix of anything with mortality represents a weakening of a thing rather than a strengthening or articualtion of power.

My guess is that the three Ravers found hosts when Foul's power began to assert itself.

Perhaps this is a good question for the Gradual Interview?

[King Elessar 8]

My theory of the Ravers is that their malice, their dank vile evil, was inherent to the creation of the earth when the creator made it so blindly. His pride allowed the instrusion.

It is my belief that Foul and the Ravers were articulated rather than born. Was this initial articualtion completed by the procreation of the the Elohim and a mortal? I doubt it. It would seem that the mix of anything with mortality represents a weakening of a thing rather than a strengthening or articualtion of power.

My guess is that the three Ravers found hosts when Foul's power began to assert itself.

Perhaps this is a good question for the Gradual Interview?

If we take the quote from TIW about their mother literally, then they were born.

In any event, Donaldson said somethig to the effect of (in response to an inquiry about any possible hierarchy amongst the Ravers) that they started out as brothers, they became Ravers as brothers, and that they serve Foul as brothers. At the least, its hard for me to see how they could be "brothers" if they were just manifestations of some bane somewhere. And since Donaldson said "they became Ravers as brothers" this implies at one time they werent Ravers, suggesting some genuine origin or another for them beyond just being a primal evil from the Creation.

[danlo]

My old theory was that they were playing together in the wrong place, perhaps a cave and stumbled upon a very bad bane...