A New Staff of Law

[King Elessar 8]

Not to keep picking on the plot of the Second Chronicles, but...


(Spoilers ahead)


Im rather curious about Covenants decision to make a new Staff of Law. While in the abstract it sounds like a good idea (as the destruction of the first staff was the cause of the Sunbane) I dont see how it could ever have been made to work, practically speaking. For one thing, who could wield it? There are no more Lords (Covenant doesnt count)) and there is no one in the land who has the Lore required to actually make use of the Staff, barring Foul himself. Linden would not be able to make use of a Staff akin to the old one simply by health sense alone. Sunder (possibly) might be able to use it, but only after years of study, which they clearly didnt have. It cannot be doubted that it would take a huge amount of knowledge and power to use it - it is said in LFB that drool can only wield it because Foul taught him some of its uses. And yet Covenant not only wants to make one, he believes it can be used for things such as sending Linden back to our world, surely a very complex spell.
And second, how was one to be made? The Staff wasnt just some piece of wood hacked off the One Tree, I presume. Almost certainly it had to be fashioned in the proper manner, and the old staff had runes on it that I imagine meant something, of which nobody alive in the SC knew what they were. Again, with the dearth of Lore in the Land at this time, who would have had the skill to create a New Staff? It seems to me that asking some questions along these lines of the Elohim would have been appropriate, since they would be in a position to know, but it doesnt seem to occur to anyone. Its a bit like a nuke - even if you found a glop of uranium somewhere, you arent going to be able to make a bomb out of it, and if all the scientists that could make one are dead, you are pretty much out of luck.

[Variol Farseer]

I think most of these objections are probably valid. There were, of course, no Lords when Berek made the first Staff; but the Earthpower itself spoke to Berek and showed him the way. Perhaps Covenant saw more in the Clave's soothtell than SRD told us. But we can only speculate, we can never know. When the question is that important to the plot of the whole series, it's the author's job to tell us.

Another problem you don't mention is that Covenant set out from Revelstone without the least idea where the One Tree actually was, or how his quest could possibly be fulfilled, and by sheer good luck stumbled upon the first Giantship to visit the Land in over 5000 years. The sound you hear in the background is the long arm of coincidence being yanked right out of its socket.

I think you have to refer to external evidence, in this case the author's own pronunciamientos on the nature of his art. SRD's view of fantasy is essentially solipsistic; he keeps talking about how Lord Foul 'is' one part of Covenant, and the wild magic 'is' another, and a hawk 'is' a handsaw. Bah, as Ursula K. LeGuin said about this whole method of reading fantasy.

Tolkien would not have permitted himself to use such a convenient plot-device unless he could find a good sound basis for it in the structure of his invented world. (And he would probably have written a 10,000-word essay on the exact runic inscription of the Staff and how Covenant knew what it was, and Christopher Tolkien would have found it among his papers after his death, and published it with 800 pages of dry-as-dust commentary.)

It's the difference between 'subcreation' and psychodrama. SRD has a genuine gift for subcreation, but his critical tools are only appropriate for analysing psychodrama; and so he pays less attention to detail and logical consistency than is quite seemly when creating a work of such great scope and detail. Tolkien held himself to a stricter standard, and his work seldom has these sorts of problems with internal consistency.

[matrixman]

I won't be suckered into another SRD vs. JRRT debate, but I will give my 2 cents about the Staff of Law: my understanding is that the new Staff doesn't need runes because it is sentient, unlike the old "dumb" Staff which required printed "instructions" to tell it how to do its job.

[dlbpharmd]

Chapter 19 "Soothtell", TWL:

For the Staff of Law had been formed by Berek Halfhand as a tool to serve and uphold the Law. He had fashioned the Staff from a limb of the One Tree as a way to wield Earthpower in defense of the health of the Land, in support of the natural order of life. And because Earthpower was the strength of mystery and spirit, the Staff became the thing it served. It was the Law; the Law was incarnate in the Staff. The tool and its purpose were one.

Based on this, why would anyone assume that the Staff required a wielder? Even when it was lost under Mount Thunder, before Drool Rockworm found it to trigger the events of LFB, the old Staff served its purpose. Why would a new SoL be any different?

As to the other comments - I agree with MM; lets not rehash that old argument again.

[Krilly]

Here's my question...

How did an ur-vile and an Elohim become the Staff of Law? I know there's some psycho-analytical reasoning behind it... because there seems to be some sort of recipe going on here.

Vain/Iron Shods = Structure

Findail = Essense

One Tree = Catalyst

I don't understand though the general concept... was the original staff created the same way? How did the ur-viles and Elohim calaborate?

[dlbpharmd]

Krilly, see my quote from TWL above. Berek created the original SoL while in partnership with the Earthpower; in effect the Earthpower allowed him to touch the One Tree and take a branch from which he formed the Staff.

The Elohim never intended for one of their own to merge with Vain - in fact Findail tried every which way he could to avoid it. But when the time came, he had no choice.

Chapter 20, WGW:

When she put her arms around [Vain's] neck and Findail's, the Elohim flinched. But his people had Appointed him to this peril, and their will held. At the last instant, he raised his head to meet his personal Wurd.

[Cate]

Krilly, see my quote from TWL above. Berek created the original SoL while in partnership with the Earthpower; in effect the Earthpower allowed him to touch the One Tree and take a branch from which he formed the Staff.

The Elohim never intended for one of their own to merge with Vain - in fact Findail tried every which way he could to avoid it. But when the time came, he had no choice.

Chapter 20, WGW:

When she put her arms around [Vain's] neck and Findail's, the Elohim flinched. But his people had Appointed him to this peril, and their will held. At the last instant, he raised his head to meet his personal Wurd.

Wait.....but the Elohim did in fact intend this purpose for Findail, that's why he was called the Appointed. in that particular paragragh we are told that they had appointed him to "this peril, and their will held." ....
".....he raised his head to meet his personal Wurd."
This was his specific and precise reason for being.
He, the spirit of the Earthpower, and Vain, the vilest of creatures, made to become the NEW staff of law, not willingly, but in hope.....planned by the "creator"/
(shades of other meanings).....the two became a New and Living Staff of Law. It would be alive in the land as well as in the hearts of the people.

[dlbpharmd]

Thanks, Cate - I was thinking specifically of Krilly's question regarding a collaboration b/w the ur-viles and Elohim. Let me clarify:

The Elohim always intended for a) Covenant to give them the ring or b) Linden to take the ring and bring ring-wielder and Sun-Sage into one being. Their agent to accomplish either of these goals was Findail. If Findail were to fail, then he would have to meet his "doom" and merge with Vain.

[Fist and Faith]

Chapter 19 "Soothtell", TWL:

For the Staff of Law had been formed by Berek Halfhand as a tool to serve and uphold the Law. He had fashioned the Staff from a limb of the One Tree as a way to wield Earthpower in defense of the health of the Land, in support of the natural order of life. And because Earthpower was the strength of mystery and spirit, the Staff became the thing it served. It was the Law; the Law was incarnate in the Staff. The tool and its purpose were one.

Based on this, why would anyone assume that the Staff required a wielder? Even when it was lost under Mount Thunder, before Drool Rockworm found it to trigger the events of LFB, the old Staff served its purpose. Why would a new SoL be any different?

I completely agree. In the soothtell, Covenant learned that, after so long,

the Staff became the thing it served. It was the Law; the Law was incarnate in the Staff. The tool and its purpose were one.

But then the Staff was destroyed. And while Foul couldn't corrupt the Law in the beginning, he was able to now. And that's why a new Staff was needed. The Earthpower had lost its stability. Think of the Staff as a rulebook. The Earthpower got so used to reading the rules whenever it needed to know anything that it forgot that it knew the rules before the book was written! And when the book was burned, it couldn't remember any of the rules. So a new rulebook was needed.

Someone wielding the Staff is a different matter. The person doesn't make or change the Law with the Staff, s/he only gets to work within the rules. Even the Ritual of Desecration was within the Law.

[CovenantJr]

Thanks, Cate - I was thinking specifically of Krilly's question regarding a collaboration b/w the ur-viles and Elohim. Let me clarify:

The Elohim always intended for a) Covenant to give them the ring or b) Linden to take the ring and bring ring-wielder and Sun-Sage into one being. Their agent to accomplish either of these goals was Findail. If Findail were to fail, then he would have to meet his "doom" and merge with Vain.

That's exactly my understanding too; the merging of Vain and Findail was a last resort as far as the Elohim were concerned. That was their contingency plan.

My only answer to most of the questions that have been raised here - particularly Farseer's - is that there seems to me to be a sense of destiny about the second chronicles that wasn't present in the first chronicles. Covenant met the Search because he had to. Though Findail's sacrifice was a last resort, it was always going to happen. The first chronicles seemed full of choices and unpredictability, but the second always felt to me like everything that happened was predetermined in some way. Just my impression.

[wayfriend]

It's not much of a Quest if it's an Easy Quest. What's suspenseful or adventurous about a Quest where the protagonist has a roadmap and a set of assembly instructions? The 'how the heck' factor is an integral part of any adventure story, as is unbelievable luck, amazing coincidence, and deus ex machina.

I look at it with Darwinian logic: out of many possible quests, it's the ones with the unbelievably amazing outcomes that live on to become great stories.

Vain/Iron Shods = Structure
Findail = Essense
One Tree = Catalyst

I'm coming around (see the GI thread) to the point of view that it's more like:
Vain = Structure (a matrix on which to build)
One Tree = Purpose (to articulate Law)
Findail = Power (motive force and, perhaps, passion)
Heels = Control (making it accessible to and operable by people)

The first chronicles seemed full of choices and unpredictability, but the second always felt to me like everything that happened was predetermined in some way.

Interesting ... I agree and disagree.

In Chron1, there's plenty of destiny. Foul spells it out the first time we meet him: seven years here, forty years there. He predicted the breaking of the Law of Death even. Covenant was predicted to be a hero from the onset (due to the Halfhand). etc.

On the other hand, there's something to what you say. As the author states, the struggle is different in Chron2. It's more about working together and sharing a quest. So it naturally would revolve more around relationships and competition and motives.

On the other other hand, I think that there is just as much unpredictability in the problem of how Linden and Covenant resolve their issues, in how Honninscrave finds his end, in how Covenant can defeat the Clave, in Pitchwife's doubt, etc.

[Baradakas]

It was my understanding that Covenant intended to use Linden's health sense to lead him, so that he could form the runes on the staff with wild magic..... I lack an exact quote however, but I believe one can be found in the One Tree.....



However, to answer the Vain/Elohim bit, you forget that the New Staff was nothing until Linden filled it with wild magic and her own knowledge of the natural order, so she was part of its fundamental purpose as well....


-B

[matrixman]

Great point, Baradakas! The new Staff would have been incomplete without Linden Avery, Chosen & Sun-Sage to give it a moral sense of the natural order. Thanks for the reminder.

[CovenantJr]

In Chron1, there's plenty of destiny. Foul spells it out the first time we meet him: seven years here, forty years there. He predicted the breaking of the Law of Death even. Covenant was predicted to be a hero from the onset (due to the Halfhand). etc.

That's true, but that all feels to me like internal destiny - that is, destiny prescribed by the characters of the story. Lord Foul predicted one possible future, but it's didn't come to pass. It almost did, but not quite. Whereas no character really made that kind of prediction within the story of the second chronicles (other than the Elohim forseeing the arrival of the Sun-Sage), but I got to the end and felt that the events really couldn't have happened any other way. Sort of an external destiny; a destiny prescribed by the story, rather than the characters.

Everything I've just said may appear nonsensical, but it was the best I could do.

[wayfriend]

However, to answer the Vain/Elohim bit, you forget that the New Staff was nothing until Linden filled it with wild magic and her own knowledge of the natural order, so she was part of its fundamental purpose as well....

Ah, yes!

The transformation required something which only the human holder of the ring could provide.

Linden provided "ethical imperative" and "meaning": "her passion for health and healing, her Land-born percipience, the love she had learned".

So I guess I have to amend my recipe.

1 Vain, for structure
1 Elohim, preferably Appointed, for power
2 Heels, from the previous Staff, to weild it when it's done
Pinch of One Tree motes, for a Lawful flavor
Simmer in Linden's health sense until it's ready.

[King Elessar 8]

Another problem you don't mention is that Covenant set out from Revelstone without the least idea where the One Tree actually was, or how his quest could possibly be fulfilled, and by sheer good luck stumbled upon the first Giantship to visit the Land in over 5000 years. The sound you hear in the background is the long arm of coincidence being yanked right out of its socket.

I didnt mention that aspect of the story because I dont really consider it to be problematic. "Chance meetings" are a staple in Fantasy going back to Tolkien, and no doubt beyond. As long as there is a decent reason for why the characters would be where they are, a bit of destiny thrown into the mix that allows for unlikely encounters is fine IMO. The Giants have a good reason for why they arrived in the Land when they did - they are seeking the source of Seadreamers vision. Tolkien does this kind of thing himself - remember back in "The Council of Elrond" all of the characters show up for their own personal reasons, but there is no logical explanation for why they would all arrive just in the nick of time to decide the fate of the Ring. It was fate.

[Krilly]

So the first two chronicles are just a round-about way of pointing out a sexist view of the kitchen.

A man burns the dish, so the woman makes it right.

[dlbpharmd]

Sorry, Krilly - I don't follow your point.

[CovenantJr]

Neither do I. Very confusing

[matrixman]

Covenant (the man) through his inadvertent destruction of the Staff screws up the Land (burns the dish), so Linden (the woman) has to make it right?

Right?