"beware the halfhand"

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:29 pm

Wasn't the Raver samadhi Sheol? Seems to me that I recall Mhoram telling someone (Covenant?) about his encounter with samadhi in the Spoiled Plains - when the Raver/ur-vile touched him he "saw" the posession of the King of Doriendor Corishev.

Post by **burgs** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:51 pm

I don't recall that. Mhoram's encounter, in my eyes, was merely to serve as evidence of his strength. "He touched me, and knew me." Other than the chapter "The Legend of Berek Halfhand" in Lord Foul's Bane (and remember, I've yet to read Runes) the King and Queen weren't mentioned again, to the best of my memory. Then again it's been awhile.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:47 am

CovenantJr wrote:Quite so. I believe the King was possessed by a Raver, certainly under Foul's command. But I think the "Berek the Betrayer" comment is relevant to the current situation. Foul recovers because of Earthpower. Berek was the first person to use Earthpower. In the current climate, particularly given the Haruchai's reasons for their Mastery, Berek could indeed be viewed as the one who facilitated everything Foul has done since then.

Darth Revan wrote:Can you please make your sig shorter Roger?
My sig is one line If you're talking about my posts being big, it's not my sig - it's my avatar. All we Edge-ites have these big gaps, because his avatars are bigger than the standard KW ones.

I thought you'd pressed enter a few too many times.

Sorry my friend.

Anyways... the Elohim existed well before Berek. And I'm sure there are other creatures that we have never heard of, that have used Earthpower.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:52 am

True. But since the Haruchai oppose all use of Earthpower, and Berek was responsible for Earthpower being so openly used, they could see him as an enemy in some sense.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:44 am

CovenantJr wrote:True. But since the Haruchai oppose all use of Earthpower, and Berek was responsible for Earthpower being so openly used, they could see him as an enemy in some sense.

Then they should see Linden as an enemy also. She made the Second Staff of Law.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:51 pm

Most of them do. Of all the Haruchai, only Stave is Linden's ally. But if you recall, they don't have a problem with Earthpower existing, just with use of it. They don't object to the Staff's existence, but they disapprove of any active use of it.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:55 pm

CovenantJr wrote:Most of them do. Of all the Haruchai, only Stave is Linden's ally. But if you recall, they don't have a problem with Earthpower existing, just with use of it. They don't object to the Staff's existence, but they disapprove of any active use of it.

Very true, but if they saw Linden as a threat, they would act against her.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:15 pm

Yes, I do wonder why they didn't. What do they want? Or perhaps that should be "What do they believe they want?" Since Foul said they serve him unwittingly, presumably they haven't acted against linden because Foul needs her...but I don't know what they believe their reasons are.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:36 pm

CovenantJr wrote:Yes, I do wonder why they didn't. What do they want? Or perhaps that should be "What do they believe they want?" Since Foul said they serve him unwittingly, presumably they haven't acted against linden because Foul needs her...but I don't know what they believe their reasons are.

They probably think that because she is an ally of the Land... she should not be hindered..yet...

Post by **burgs** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:59 pm

CovenantJr wrote:Yes, I do wonder why they didn't. What do they want? Or perhaps that should be "What do they believe they want?" Since Foul said they serve him unwittingly, presumably they haven't acted against linden because Foul needs her...but I don't know what they believe their reasons are.

So far, "everyone" has unwittingly served Foul, he's laughed about it until he's sick, and then he's been undone. I'm starting to wonder if all of these years of imprisonment, defeat, rebirth, defeat, rebirth, etc., have driven him insane. Seriously.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:04 pm

A possibility. I suppose it's like building a really immense house of cards, only to have some random bloke with a shiny wedding ring blithely open the door and let a draught in. Then starting again...and again...

Post by **Revan** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:32 pm

No... But I think the Elohim are scared of Thomas because he is FOul.

That's why they fear his return... i don't think that Thomas is what he appears to be.

Post by **burgs** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:33 pm

And don't forget Kevin's Desecration, and his initial imprisonment which much have diminished him to some degree (after his struggle with The Creator).

Post by **burgs** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:42 pm

Darth Revan wrote:No... But I think the Elohim are scared of Thomas because he is FOul. That's why they fear his return... i don't think that Thomas is what he appears to be.

They can fear him without him being Foul. They weren't crazy about him in The One Tree. Their fear can be simply based on his ability ("You are the wild magic") to destroy their world.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:47 pm

true, but why wouldn't they fear Linden as well?

Post by **CovenantJr** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:09 pm

Because Linden's rubbish

Post by **Romeo** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:13 pm

LOL!!!!

They feared Covenant because he didn't have Linden's health sense to guide his use of the wild magic.

Post by **burgs** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:19 pm

Romeo wrote:LOL!!!!

They feared Covenant because he didn't have Linden's health sense to guide his use of the wild magic.

Yet even in the first trilogy, he could have allowed his anger and hatred towards Foul ("He laughs at lepers") to cause a conflagration of wild magic that could have rent the Arch of Time, although that really wasn't an enormous concern at the time because Foul wasn't *trying* to get him to go crazy. Still, it could have happened, and even with his health sense.

Post by **native** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:55 pm

Yet even in the first trilogy, he could have allowed his anger and hatred towards Foul ("He laughs at lepers") to cause a conflagration of wild magic that could have rent the Arch of Time

iirc it required the venom to heighten his might to make him powerful enough to do that.

Post by **Unmaker** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:56 pm

On an external level, Covenant's leprosy is both the mechanism for and the symbol of his alienation from any sustaining form of human community (marriage, children, friends, etc.). This brings his inner Despiser to the fore. In a manner of speaking, it makes him a fertile field for what Lord Foul wants to plant. (What saves him--to extend the metaphor--is that the Land and its people can also plant in that field.) And as such, of course, it *is* something that he has to deal with in order to deal with Lord Foul. But "accept and overcome"? Ah, that's where it gets complicated. Covenant is on a spiritual journey--and it ain't over yet. To say that he "overcomes" his "inner corruption" in order to deal with Lord Foul would be accurate enough for the first trilogy. But at that point he is still a long way from accepting that inner corruption. Naturally he makes progress in the second trilogy. There he discovers the power that can be found in ceasing to try to overcome. (We're getting pretty Zen here, I admit.) But if that were the whole story, I wouldn't need to write "The Last Chronicles."

So says SRD. Isn't there a hint in this response that Covenant and Foul may actually be two sides of the same coin?

Is it possible, btw, that Linden's son will become a vehicle for Covenant, a place for him to "take on the flesh"?

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

"beware the halfhand"