The Runes of the Earth enters NYTimes Bestseller List

[burgs]

I'm not arguing with you, Shawn, I was just stating my opinion on how sales would eventually play out.

However, while it's sad to hear that Putnam did create floor displays and that booksellers chose not to display them, I don't believe that an ad in Locus (extremely focused audience - 90% of Locus's readership was probably aware that the book was being written before the cover story ever appeared), or an ad in Publisher's Weekly, or any of the other things you mention (even the blurb in EW that I mentioned) count for a *concerted* effort to get the message to the reader. And that is ultimately the most important thing - letting the reader know what's at stake here.

Putnam must have anticipated fair to average sales, and so didn't go the full distance that Bantam did when marketing the Gap series (true - in an effort that lost them money). You couldn't walk into a bookstore and not know the book was available. Sadly, The Real Story didn't convince most of SRDs readers that any story existed beyond it, and Forbidden Knowledge fell off many radars.

Given that Runes is already at #18 with such little reaching out to the *readers*, it seems that Putnam may have undervalued Donaldson's return to the Land. Imagine what sales would be like if they had gone all out.

[Ard Rhys]

"I am an avid reader. I have several "must read" authors. I make it a point of routinely checking for new books."

At this point being made, all I have to say is you are the exception to the rule. After not being in a series for so long, a majority of sales the author wishes does not come from devout readers - they come from word of mouth and people trying new things. People aren't going to try new things with a new Covenant book after 20 years. That just leaves sales to those who are devout - hence the reason why the sales were mediocre instead of what you all were expecting.

And of course there is a fine line between writing and publishing and selling. Terry Brooks even admits that he has to go away from a series before writing it again, and usually takes several several years off between series. This makes sense. But 20 years? No. Sorry. That doesn't work for me. There is creativity, and then there is stubbornness. Steve didn't want to go back to his typecast creation. He wanted respect everywhere - and that's why he has never found a permanent publishing house. It's not good for the business of the house to have him when he is unwilling to build any kind of fan base in the normal way.

You see a Terry Brooks at Del Rey for 25+ years. He comes out with a book every year almost. How are his sales? They are fantastic. He is on top of his game, experiencing higher sales with every book he puts out. Quality aside, it matters not - he's got the sales and the fans. He's being read. And to most authors, that is all that matters. Don't ever forget this is a business. So you may be partially right about Terry Brooks, but I still think he does it right.

I have to argue against the Dune notion though - they did it right. They could have jumped into Dune 7 and have been done with it, but would they have the respect from the fans to do that? The answer is most likely no, they wouldn't have. No one would have given it any kind of credence at all. Why? Because people HATE a Christopher Tolkien, that spends time milking his father's four books. Instead, the Dune guys went out and wrote real books to see if they could pull off Dune 7 with the fans. They have won over the majority of fans now, and Dune 7 will likely be the largest publishing event in over a decade because of it.

Anyway, I have to get to work. It's nice talking with you people.

Shawn

[dlbpharmd]

I googled my way to KW a little over a year ago, and learned of the new series then. If it hadn't been for that, I would have never known anything at all about a new Covenant series.

I'm not the big scifi/fantasy fan that many of you are. The only other major scifi/fantasy author that I read consistently is Anne McCaffrey. I never heard of Locus until someone started the thread about the SRD interview sometime ago.

I was in a WaldenBook store last week, and they did not have a single copy of Runes.

I agree that Putnam really dropped the ball on this one. I just hope that SRD doesn't suffer for it.

[Prover of Life]

"I am an avid reader. I have several "must read" authors. I make it a point of routinely checking for new books."

At this point being made, all I have to say is you are the exception to the rule. Shawn

That is sad.

One thing we haven't really mentioned much is paperbacks. Since casual readers tend to forsake hardbacks, we should see an upswing in paper. Either way, my concern with sales is for SRD and those of us who would never have access to such wonderful creativity if his books were not published.

As far as stubborness goes....that's up to the Author to decide. Personally, I have more respect for anyone who stands up for creative authority rather than submit for the sake of a buck. I also feel that any Author who achieves success primarily through a specific character or locale, owes it to his fans to eventually return there. But even then, that choice of sales must be left up to the creator, not public opinion. If an Author has a story to tell...tell it no matter the locale. If a Writer has a buck to make...make it no matter the content of what is written. Publishers want Writers, while readers want Authors. Writers bring instant $$$. Authors bring long term $. Give me a steady foundation that can be built on any day.

IMO SRD is an Author who's works will be read & debated long after he's gone. BROOKS has become a Writer who will disappear with SHANNARA due to lack of any other credible ideas or the willingness to try.

Writers entertain. Authors expand.

[UrLord]

Great post!

Personally, I care about whether SRD's books are popular. I want SRD to become fabulously wealthy doing this (as he deserves to be!) and I want as many people as possible to experience the books. I don't, however, personally need the books to be #1 on the bestseller list. My enjoyment of these books doesn't need to be validated by the opinions of anyone else.

So, while it saddens me to see Runes fall so short of what it deserves, it certainly won't mean anything in terms of how much I enjoy the book or whether I'll buy the next one.

[burgs]

One thing we haven't really mentioned much is paperbacks. Since casual readers tend to forsake hardbacks, we should see an upswing in paper.

I did comment on this, and I think that as word of mouth increases over the year, and people realize that there is another Covenant series out, Fatal Revenant will see a huge boost and should far outperform Runes.

[Prover of Life]

One thing we haven't really mentioned much is paperbacks. Since casual readers tend to forsake hardbacks, we should see an upswing in paper.

I did comment on this, and I think that as word of mouth increases over the year, and people realize that there is another Covenant series out, Fatal Revenant will see a huge boost and should far outperform Runes.

Yes you did. Overlooked it. Agree wholeheartedly.

Something else that comes to mind. The paperback editions of SRD's works have never gone out of print. Another sign of long-term sales for a publishers (and Authors) profit.

[aiken]

I just checked the NYT list, Runes is at #21, it slipped to #104 on USA Today's list and is at #210 at Amazon. I confess that I am disappointed--Runes is a minor splash.

[burgs]

Yeah - you beat me to it. I was just about to post this.

Very tragic.

[dlbpharmd]

What a shame.

This will change, I believe, with Fatal Revenant.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Yeah, I think this is more likely to slowly build than explode.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Lots of good posts here.
I learned a few things too.
My Barnes and Noble had a few copies.
The one I bought was even autographed! Woo-Hoo!
Does that mean SRD was actually signing it in the store?
If so I wish I had heard about it.
I would have lliked to thank the guy who has given me so much enjoyment!
But it's true that I was suprised to not see any displays for his new book.
I couldn't even find it in a local Borders!

It's funny though.
From my handle you may have guessed that I'm a Tolkien fan and I've been posting to the Tolkien usenet groups for several years.
Once in a while someone posts one of those "What other authors do you enjoy?" type of question and Donaldson's CoTC is seldom mentioned in a positive light.
And if he is it's usually with a disclaimer of some type like"I know I shouldn't say this" or "Even though..."
If a discussion does start on the CoTC it usually downgrades into a negative anti-Covenant slamfest.
TC seems to be either hated or loved out there. (I know "out there" is a small select Tolkien usenet universe but I'm always suprised by the posts)

Anyone else get these reactions or am I just running with Tolkien snobs?

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

What are the issues tolkein snobs express? Just curious

[Lord Wombat]

My own opinion is that for a book to break into the 11-20 range on the NYT bestseller list is nothing to sneeze at, and that sales will likely pick up somewhat as we head into the Christmas season and copies get purchased to give as gifts.

Given that I don't think any of the GAP books scored even that high, far as I know.... (Though I could be wrong.)

[Sweet Brutha Numpsay]

Plus word of mouth, I'm still preaching about it. Two of my friends that I forced the 1st and 2nd chronicles down there throat didnt even know about Runes, now they're going to buy it.
So word of mouth may help plus the arrival of Christmas combined.

[aiken]

I agree that an appearance on the NYT bestseller list is nice, but it did not make the top 10 and it appears to be dropping. We'll have to see where NYT puts it this week. (I just checked amazon and it is at #502!) I wondered i the NYT apperance was a spike for all the old fans that went and purcahsed. To really get his career back and sale s up, SRD needs new readers.

At least Putnam can market the paperback as a NY Times bestseller, and perhaps gain more interest that way. Also, I also think that Runes will be like many of his other books, in the sense that they last. People have been slow to recognize him, but once they do, they generally like him and word of mouth helps him.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

I don't care if he doesn't get a single new reader, to be honest. I mean, I hope he does, but I always got the impression that he was finishing the series both for himself, and for us... those that need to see the story come to its end.

[Thaale]

aiken, it's good to see a Julian May fan on the board!

High Lord Tolkien, I have definitely gotten those reactions regarding SRD. In fact, part of the reason I'm here is the almost complete lack of interest (and general negativity) regarding SRD that prevails on rec.arts.sf.written.

• You may be getting some (justifiable) snobbery from Tolkienites who have no respect for the legions of those authors who piggybacked off of JRRT’s success in the 1970s. Obviously SRD is a million miles above Terry Brooks, but the fact is that neither would have succeeded (or been published) without JRRT paving the way. And although I would be among the first to defend SRD’s imagination, even his friendliest readers have to acknowledge that although he came up with dozens of neat ideas of his own, he also borrowed heavily from JRRT.

• The rape thing is a BIG sticking point for a lot of people, both women and men. Those of us who are TC fans have all gotten past it one way or the other, but not everyone does or can or bothers to try to.

• TC is considered too whiny by many. Just not their cup of tea.

• Finally, part of it’s a generational thing. I noticed a lot of reflexive hostility toward the very concept of even trying SRD about ten years ago, when Jordan readers new to fantasy were searching for alternatives to The Wheel of Time and Tolkien. The view of most of the Generation Y readers of Wheel was that The Chronicles of TC were “an older brother album;” a Generation X phenomenon they wouldn’t be caught dead reading. You see the same thing now with fans of GRRM being snobs about Jordan and Tolkien, and I’m sure someone (Erikson?) will come along soon whose fans will consign GRRM to the ash heap of history.

I think the above-described generational thing is part of what the bookstore people are getting at. SRD is no longer viewed as a contemporary author. He’s a niche author who will sell a lot to devoted fans the first few weeks the books are out, but that’s it. Pushing the series would be superfluous for us, and useless for everyone else.

His fans can say, well, if they just promoted his books like they do GRR Martin’s, they’d sell. But that’s like saying, if they would just give the latest Van Halen album the same push they gave 1984, it would be just as big. Face it; they’re not going to give it that push. They’ve moved on, and they figure the fans have, too. As noted, the Gap series was a publishing failure, and that’s the record SRD is running on. (Even Mordant’s Need was a huge dropoff from the international success of TCOTC).

[burgs]

Thale - good post. You covered all of the topics that I would have mentioned.

The other thing is this: fantasy readers don't like heros with immense powers that either don't know how, or don't want, or are afraid to use them. Fantasy readers on a while want their heros to be cut from a different cloth than Thomas Covenant is. TC was cut from the cloth of, perhaps, a main character from Conrad's Lord Jim (maybe not), and certainly some of Faulkner. That's just far too esoteric for the majority of fantasy readers.

Speaking of esoteric, these books aren't straightforward fantasies. There are real characters involved, with deep emotions and feelings; actual, definable character arcs that are - gasp! - completed when the story is finished. That's hard to say about most fantasy.

Whenever I recommend Covenant to people, I prepare them for it. I tell them that the hero is intensely flawed, and that he has a very complex character arc that the reader needs to pay close attention to.

With regard to sales, SRD has been his own worst enemy. I said this just a short while ago in another post, but it bears mention. If he weren't so stubborn (though I fully understand him wanting to be appreciated for work other than Covenant - that's an identifiable trait of a true artist - if he'd started writing these after he was finished with the Gap series, the books would have sold MUCH better. Instead he took five years to write a mystery, and then started Covenant. A total of eight years went by without a single mention of his name on the fantasy bookshelves. Of course his career is in decline - how could it be otherwise.

For his sake, because I admire him so much as a writer, I hope this revives his career. He has deserved better. To think that Terry Brooks and Terry Goodkind have deeper pockets than SRD makes my blood boil.

With regard to Martin - I guess I'm one of those snobs, though not with regard for Tolkien. Any writer or reader worth their salt recognizes Tolkien immense accomplishment and contribution to the field. That said, he makes Jordan look like a fool. Jordan was writing what could have been one of the best fantasy series ever, and somewhere (was it dollar signs?) he got distracted. Now his books are empty, nothing happens, the woman are all the same - it's sheer boredome. While I'm frustrated with Martin for not having finished A Feast for Crows (GREAT title), his previous three books have really set quite a standard for other writers in this genre to live up to.

[Edge]

You may be getting some (justifiable) snobbery from Tolkienites who have no respect for the legions of those authors who piggybacked off of JRRT’s success in the 1970s. Obviously SRD is a million miles above Terry Brooks, but the fact is that neither would have succeeded (or been published) without JRRT paving the way. And although I would be among the first to defend SRD’s imagination, even his friendliest readers have to acknowledge that although he came up with dozens of neat ideas of his own, he also borrowed heavily from JRRT.

I've never understood this obsession for comparing Donaldson to Tolkien. The one and only thing that TCOTC has in common with LOTR, is the importance of a ring (and the concept of Good versus Evil, which no author would be foolish enough to claim as an original concept). If you absolutely have to compare SRD with another author - why not CS Lewis? The same concept of people from the 'real world' being pulled into a different reality, and even the same concept of the different flow of time.

Exactly what did SRD 'borrow' from JRRT? Enquiring minds want to know.