If time is a loop, as is being suggested, and the White Gold can control time....
...could the Arch of Time BE the white gold ring?
Just a thought.
Mad theory
Moderator: dlbpharmd
Joans ring is well a corruption. A whirling tornado of chaos (I mean is there more than one for a start or many) cannot assail the land. It has an effect but it seems limited and open to manipulation. The Demondim for example and the Illearth stone. It seems fragile and rather chaotic.
So many questions and answers to be had.
So many questions and answers to be had.
This could hinge on which definition of the word "crux" SRD meant to go with. We know how much he loves using archaic definitions of words, or less used definitions.
According to the OED, relevant definitions are:
1. A difficulty which it torments or troubles one greatly to interpret or explain, a thing that puzzles the ingenuity; as 'a textual crux'.
2. The chief problem; the central or decisive point of interest.
Neither of these *really* exactly says what most of us think SRD is meaning when he refers to white gold being the crux of the Arch. I think that we interpret it to be that white gold is the foundation of the Arch. But if that interpretation is correct, and a more figurative definition is, in fact, intended - then we have some interesting stuff heading our way in the next three books, especially if SRD is defining crux by using an offshoot of the first subdefinition I've noted.
According to the OED, relevant definitions are:
1. A difficulty which it torments or troubles one greatly to interpret or explain, a thing that puzzles the ingenuity; as 'a textual crux'.
2. The chief problem; the central or decisive point of interest.
Neither of these *really* exactly says what most of us think SRD is meaning when he refers to white gold being the crux of the Arch. I think that we interpret it to be that white gold is the foundation of the Arch. But if that interpretation is correct, and a more figurative definition is, in fact, intended - then we have some interesting stuff heading our way in the next three books, especially if SRD is defining crux by using an offshoot of the first subdefinition I've noted.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." (Anais Nin)
Does it matter that through the vast majority of the Land's history, Covenant's ring is not present in that world?
I think of the ring as a tool to strengthen or weaken the Arch. Covenent's death in the Land transforms his relationship with the Arch.
But I guess you could correlate the forging of the ring with the beginning of Time in the Land. That would definitely indicate that its not just any old White Gold that has power. ("White Gold" thread)
I think of the ring as a tool to strengthen or weaken the Arch. Covenent's death in the Land transforms his relationship with the Arch.
But I guess you could correlate the forging of the ring with the beginning of Time in the Land. That would definitely indicate that its not just any old White Gold that has power. ("White Gold" thread)
Conceivably, this could be the reason *why* he is the white gold, although certainly that isn't anything that Mhoram would have known about. Mhoram could have been speaking specifically about power, like he was an embodiment of Kevin's Lore (along with other Lords), etc.
So why is Covenant the white gold? Maybe it's because the arch of time was fashioned when his ring was created. I doubt that's anything that SRD had in mind while writing the first chrons, but it's useful now.
So why is Covenant the white gold? Maybe it's because the arch of time was fashioned when his ring was created. I doubt that's anything that SRD had in mind while writing the first chrons, but it's useful now.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." (Anais Nin)
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finn
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Just some thoughts....
White Gold appears to me to be a tool much as a gun or a knife or a stick, the key is what use you make of that tool, do you kill a dangerous predator or a mad dog or slay your best mate?
The use is subject to decision and choice and this to me is what Covenent discovered and its his indecision and unbelief that stops him merely using the ring as a weapon. Foul's method is persuation and manipulating circumstance to evoke choices which serve his own ends. Covenent comes to understand this and that the choice is the key.....the weapon doesn't kill, the user of the weapon kills.
Thus Covenant is the white gold, he is the wielder.
He is forged by the choices he makes and in the second series by the events of the white gold detonations; he melds with the white gold whilst cleansing the venoms Foul subjects him to through the Ravers. I can't recall the quote exactly but I'm sure he becomes "something Foul doesn't expect" and he talks about being an "alloy" of White Gold.
Thus I'm not sure that the ability of White Gold on its own is purely intrinsic, ie it has to reflect the quality and strength of choice of the weilder. Therefore Linden cannot necessarily do what Covenant could nor can Covenants wife. Covenant's depth and strength of character has been a result of his leprosy, his wife and child leaving and his shunning by the townsfolk: not neccessarily a positive result but one that serves him well when confronted by power. Linden's is her parents deaths and her previous torments and violations in the Land as well as her loss of Covenant. Both are very wary of the use of power, Covenant because it could lead him to forget the disciplines that keep him alive in the real world and Linden because she has used her power to kill a parent.
I wonder if anyone from the land can wield White Gold? It can only be found by being brought to the land and so far wielded by those from the real world. Also why have the Loremasters not been even a tad curious about where Covenant comes from?
There's an old adage that "power perceived is power achieved" and by extension the use of power lessens its potency. Donaldson's main themes include 'paradox' and 'power'. The paradox of power is that its use lessens its effect and this theme is central to the second series. Thus by not using power Covenant defeats Foul, who's strategy is based on his own standards of power-lusting and consequent corruption (power corrupts..abslolute power corrupts absolutely).
What is an interesting question is how the knowledge of White Gold came to be in the Land? Maybe the third series answers this and it becomes a memory (in Series 1&2) from its use after characters travel back in time. Surely Berek must be a manifestation of either Covenant or Linden's son, gone back through the Falls and could Foul himself be Roger?
I'm only halfway through Runes but it seems the casts from Series 1&2 are all in play, and we are looking at the World as the stage not merely the Land.
As I say just some thoughts....
White Gold appears to me to be a tool much as a gun or a knife or a stick, the key is what use you make of that tool, do you kill a dangerous predator or a mad dog or slay your best mate?
The use is subject to decision and choice and this to me is what Covenent discovered and its his indecision and unbelief that stops him merely using the ring as a weapon. Foul's method is persuation and manipulating circumstance to evoke choices which serve his own ends. Covenent comes to understand this and that the choice is the key.....the weapon doesn't kill, the user of the weapon kills.
Thus Covenant is the white gold, he is the wielder.
He is forged by the choices he makes and in the second series by the events of the white gold detonations; he melds with the white gold whilst cleansing the venoms Foul subjects him to through the Ravers. I can't recall the quote exactly but I'm sure he becomes "something Foul doesn't expect" and he talks about being an "alloy" of White Gold.
Thus I'm not sure that the ability of White Gold on its own is purely intrinsic, ie it has to reflect the quality and strength of choice of the weilder. Therefore Linden cannot necessarily do what Covenant could nor can Covenants wife. Covenant's depth and strength of character has been a result of his leprosy, his wife and child leaving and his shunning by the townsfolk: not neccessarily a positive result but one that serves him well when confronted by power. Linden's is her parents deaths and her previous torments and violations in the Land as well as her loss of Covenant. Both are very wary of the use of power, Covenant because it could lead him to forget the disciplines that keep him alive in the real world and Linden because she has used her power to kill a parent.
I wonder if anyone from the land can wield White Gold? It can only be found by being brought to the land and so far wielded by those from the real world. Also why have the Loremasters not been even a tad curious about where Covenant comes from?
There's an old adage that "power perceived is power achieved" and by extension the use of power lessens its potency. Donaldson's main themes include 'paradox' and 'power'. The paradox of power is that its use lessens its effect and this theme is central to the second series. Thus by not using power Covenant defeats Foul, who's strategy is based on his own standards of power-lusting and consequent corruption (power corrupts..abslolute power corrupts absolutely).
What is an interesting question is how the knowledge of White Gold came to be in the Land? Maybe the third series answers this and it becomes a memory (in Series 1&2) from its use after characters travel back in time. Surely Berek must be a manifestation of either Covenant or Linden's son, gone back through the Falls and could Foul himself be Roger?
I'm only halfway through Runes but it seems the casts from Series 1&2 are all in play, and we are looking at the World as the stage not merely the Land.
As I say just some thoughts....