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It is my opinion that, if you try the patience of the Elohim, you have a decent chance of being obliterated. Not the most tolerant or patient folks. So how did Amok survive the encounter?"Do I live?"
"It appears not," Verement growled. "Nothing mortal would try our patience so."
Ah, that damn Amok has me so flabbergasted that I forgot to loginAnonymous wrote:Infelice is a soft touch when it comes to infuriating youths with curly hair and mischieveous grins.Fist and Faith wrote:What I mean is, Amok is infuriating!It is my opinion that, if you try the patience of the Elohim, you have a decent chance of being obliterated. Not the most tolerant or patient folks. So how did Amok survive the encounter?"Do I live?"
"It appears not," Verement growled. "Nothing mortal would try our patience so."
That's an excellent point! As in touch with the Earthpower as Kevin was, should we assume that he knew of the Elohim? I imagine so. (I'll bet he asked them for help, and they said, "You don't need us. Just do the Ritual of Descecration." "Uh... Yeah, thanks for your help.") And, as you say, Amok had no programming to avoid them. I wonder why. As I've been saying, it seems that even they couldn't hurt him, but you wouldn't think Kevin would have left it to chance.Damelon wrote:If Kevin had worried about the Elohim, he could have put it in Amok to stay away from them.
Fist and Faith wrote:(I'll bet he asked them for help, and they said, "You don't need us. Just do the Ritual of Descecration." "Uh... Yeah, thanks for your help.")
That would be in character for them. ("We are too busy being the Earth's Wurd and don't have time for your problems. The solution is within you.")
This is just part of my problem...I have not been working on this, I've been obsessing over this. I have discussed Hile Troy w/these folks and even proposed a couple of theories: 1) that the Land, itself, is manipulating events (and possibly had an active hand in Troy's summoning) and 2) Expounding on the notion that HT is an extended figment of Covenant's imagination. I've read from the beginning of TIW to here, I've reread this chapter 3 times, I've been all over all the Kevin's Watch topics (both here and in the archives) concerning Troy---in fact I've even been to five other review and discussion sites. But found no help to approach Troy's role in this particular chapter...I did, however, find a very cool quote about TC's dillema, but even that doesn't help me here... ...and then, when I found out it was I who made the last post in the "Hile Troy what a Berk" topic on the old Kevin's Watch!How does one choose between two mutually exclusive evils, each worse than the other in their own way? What if that choice means the death of Innocents? (Oh, and those Innocents are actually a figment of your own imagination - what could they possibly do to convince you that they are 'real'?) How does one deal with one's own self-doubt, self-loathing and rise to the ability to take action for both oneself and others? How can one love anything of beauty if one cannot bear to love oneself? Can one embrace the paradox of having both Hope and Despair? Salvation and Damnation? Love and Desecration?--submitted to sffc.reviews.com by James M. O'Connell (19. Aug 2000)
Oy vey my reputation!!! Starts to sweat serious bullets! 
Troy goes on with this to recap why the new Lords swore the Oath of Peace: to resist the emotional destructiveness of Kevin's despair in order to survive and address Foul's machinations. Now Troy wants some direct answers from Covenant concerning the reality of the Land, Covenant's inaction, non-belief and lack of responsibility. Hile even grips Covenant around the neck to prove his own reality. Again they go round and round about the leper's death in dreams. As if to cross the barrier of illusion Troy brings up the issue of the white-gold: you have the power here, you can take responsibility, you can control your dreams. To which Covenant responds: No despite what happened 40 years ago, I can't control it, it happened in spite of me, I'm impotent, only the impotent survive to disprove illusion. If my first quote in this post helps me at all it's when TC says,"It all comes down to Kevin. He's the one who made the Seven Wards. He's the one who inspired the Bloodguard. He's the one who performed the Ritual of Desecration."
All the time Troy and Covenant are argueing they have also been descending back to familiar parts of Revelstone. Suddenly Bannor blocks a junction saying it is High Lord Elena's orders that you will not choose this way. In confused defiance Convenany tarries and as soon as he and Troy are about to depart a huge Stonedowner appears in the doorway. The man has his head hung down with the weight of the centuries upon him. Troy doesn't understand why they should be barred from one of the rhadhamaerl, but Covenant does, he knows him,"What you're really asking me to do is learn how to use this wild magic so I can go around butchering the poor, miserable creatures in Foul's army. Well. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do anymore killing--and certianly not in the name of something that isn't even real!"
Finally Trell can take no more, visions of Atiaran, wraiths and Lena crack though his Oath of Peace and he viciously attacks Covenant, putting him in a bear hug with intent to kill. Troy tries to do something but it is only after repeated pummeling Bannor succeeds in repelling Trell...Trell has defiled the very stone he loves with his bare hands and leaves more crushed than ever, as if to say. 'you don't think this is real? Deal homeboy...',"And I know you, Thomas Covenant."..."Are you not satisfied? Have you come to do more harm?"...
"I'm sorry."...
"Sorry?" Trell almost choked on the word. "is that enough? Does it raise the dead?"
'Impotent, my ass!' Troy seems to says. 'O god why did we even bother with this one in the first place! Not only does he disbelieve, he desecrates as bad, if not worse, than Kevin...'"Jesus! Covenant," Troy said at last. What has he got against you?"
Covenant waited until he found a clear space between coughs, then he answered, "I raped his daughter."
This is an incredible chapter, and I'm so pleased to see it getting the time and energy it needs and deserves.He needs Bannor as an anchor of reality in this delusion. Someone treating him the way he deserves to be treated, who will not allow him to do horrible things, then go skipping through the fields as though it doesn't matter. Nice to have an angel on your shoulder."The Bloodguard do not forgive."
"I know. I remember. I should count my blessings." With his arms wrapped around his chest to hold the pieces of himself together, he went back to his rooms.
The more determined Troy is to make Covenant acknowledge the Land is real (and therefore important), the more Covenant insists he must reject its reality. I think it's because of more than just Covenant fearing the loss of his leper's self-protective defenses. I think Covenant can see the despair that could inflict Troy should Troy's ambitions for the Land collapse. The failure of that much responsibility could be suicidal even without having to worry about leprosy!In [i]The Illearth War[/i] Chapter 8 was wrote:"Covenant," Troy continued as if he were still on the same subject, "I don't see why you aren't ecstatic about being here. How can the 'real' world be any more important than this?"
"It's the only world there is." Covenant climbed heavily to his feet. "Let's get out of here. This heat is making me giddy."
Moving slowly, they left the amphitheater. The air in Revelstone welcomed them back with its cool, dim pleasance, and Covenant breathed it deeply, trying to steady himself.
He wanted to get away from Troy, evade the questions he knew Troy would ask him. But the Warmark had a look of determination. After a few moments, he said, "Listen, Covenant. I'm trying to understand. Since the last time we talked, I've spent half my time trying. Somebody has got to have some idea what to expect from you. But I just don't see it. Back there, you're a leper. Isn't this better?"
Dully, answering as briefly as possible, Covenant said, "It isn't real. I don't believe it." Half to himself, he added, "Lepers who pay too much attention to their own dreams or whatever don't live very long."
"Jesus," Troy muttered. "You make it sound as if leprosy is all there is." He thought for a moment, then demanded, "How can you be so sure this isn't real?"
"Because life isn't like this. Lepers don't get well. People with no eyes don't suddenly start seeing. Such things don't happen. Somehow, we're being betrayed. Our own--our own needs for something that we don't have--are seducing us into this. It's crazy. Look at you. Come on--think about what happened to you. There you were, trapped between a nine-story building and a raging fire--blind and helpless and about to die. Is it so strange to think you cracked up?"
"That is," he went on mordantly, "assuming you exist at all. I've got an idea about you. I must've made you up subconsciously so that I would have someone to argue with. Someone to tell me I'm wrong."
"Damn it!" Troy cried. Turning swiftly, he snatched up Covenant's right hand and gripped it at eye level between them. With his head thrust defiantly forward, he said intensely, "Look at me. Feel my grip. I'm here. It's a fact. It's real."
For a moment, Covenant considered Troy's hand. Then he said, "I feel you. And I see you. I even hear you. But that only proves my point. I don't believe it. Now let go of me."
"Why?!"
Troy's sunglasses loomed at him darkly, but Covenant glared back into them until they turned away. Gradually, the Warmark released the pressure of his grip. Covenant yanked his hand away, and walked on with a quiver in his breathing. After a few strides, he said, "Because I can feel it. And I can't afford it. Now listen to me. Listen hard. I'm going to try to explain this so you can understand.
"Just forget that you know there's no possible way you could have come here. It's impossible--But just forget that for a while. Listen. I'm a leper. Leprosy is not a directly fatal disease, but it can kill indirectly. I can only--any leper can only stay alive by concentrating from getting hurt--and to take care of his hurts as soon as they happen. The one thing--Listen to me. The one thing no leper can afford is to let his mind wander. If he wants to stay alive. As soon as he stops concentrating, and starts thinking about how he's going to make a better life for himself, or starts dreaming about how his life was before he got sick, or about what he would do if he only got cured, or even if people simply stopped abhorring lepers"--he threw the words at Troy's head like chunks of stone--"then he is as good as dead.
"This--Land--is suicide to me. It's an escape, and I can't afford even thinking about escapes, much less actually falling into one. Maybe a blind man can stand the risk, but a leper can't. If I give in here, I won't last a month where it really counts. Because I'll have to go back. Am I getting through to you?"
"Yes," Troy said. "Yes. I'm not stupid. But think about it for a minute. If it should happen--if it should somehow be true that the Land is real--then you're denying your only hope. And that's--"
"I know."
"--that's not all. There's something you're not taking into account. The one thing that doesn't fit this delusion theory of yours is power--your power. White gold. Wild magic. That damn ring of yours changes everything. You're not a victim here. This isn't being done to you. You're responsible."
"No," Covenant groaned.
"Wait a minute! You can't just deny this. You're responsible for your dreams, Covenant. Just like anybody else."
No! Nobody can control dreams. Covenant tried to fill himself with icy confidence, but his heart was chilled by another cold entirely.
Troy pressed his argument. "There's been plenty of evidence that white gold is just exactly what the Lords say it is. How did the Fire-Lions of Mount Thunder get called down to save you? White gold, that's how. You've already got the key to the whole thing."
"No." Covenant struggled to give his refusal some force. "No, It isn't like that. What white gold does in the Land has nothing to do with me."
"Is that a fact?" Troy said sourly. "And since you don't have any power, no one can hold you to blame."
Troy's tone gave Covenant something on which to focus his anger. "That's right!" he flared. "Let me tell you something. The only person in life who's free at all, ever, is a person who's impotent. Like me. Or what do you think freedom is? Unlimited potential? Unrestricted possibilities? Hellfire! Impotence is freedom. When you're incapable of anything, no one can expect anything from you. Power has its own limits--even ultimate power. Only the impotent are free.
"No!" he snapped to stop Troy's protest. "I'll tell you something else. What you're really asking me to do is learn how to use this wild magic so I can go around butchering the poor, miserable creatures in Foul's army. Well, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do any more killing--and certainly not in the name of something that isn't even real!"
"Hooray," muttered Troy in tight sarcasm. "Sweet Jesus. Whatever happened to people who used to believe in things?"
"They got leprosy and died. Weren't you listening to that song?"
In [i]Thomas and Linden[/i], Wayfriend wrote:Hile Troy is the first alternate protagonist we encounter. He is from Covenant's real world, which makes him comparatively similar to Covenant. But his origins also make him familiar to the reader, and this contributes to the first function he performs.
Through Troy's eyes, we get to meet Covenant all over again, and come to grips with his intransigence. Troy acts as a sort of proxy for the reader, putting the reader more directly into the story. He reacts to Covenants ascerbic moods, confronts Covenant about his unbelief, and expresses directly to Covenant contempt for his actions exactly was we might wish to.
Troy's confrontations with Covenant allow Covenant to re-explain his positions anew. So, in an organic way, Covenant gets to make his case again, directly to our proxy. And, as we identify ourselves with Troy, Troy's responses to Covenant inform and validate our own responses to Covenant.In [i]The Illearth War[/i] was wrote:"Listen, Covenant. I'm trying to understand. Since the last time we talked, I've spent half my time trying. Somebody has got to have some idea what to expect from you. But I just don't see it. Back there, you're a leper. Isn't this better?"
Dully, answering as briefly as possible, Covenant said, "It isn't real. I don't believe it." Half to himself, he added, "Lepers who pay too much attention to their own dreams or whatever don't live very long."
"Jesus," Troy muttered. "You make it sound as if leprosy is all there is."
The result is that the author, through Troy, conveys to the reader quite successfully who Covenant is, and what we should think about him. When Covenant responds to Troy, he is responding to us. This is a result that serves to highlight Covenant's character, arrived at in a seemingly natural, almost invisible fashion.
