The Ending... Was that really...

[CovenantJr]

I was going to search for it, but I don't know which book is most likely to contain it. Also, whenever I start looking things up, I end up reading the books again.

[Eryne]

Also, whenever I start looking things up, I end up reading the books again.

You, too?!?!

I was thinking about re-reading it actually. I just read Runes and i realized I forgot a lot of things! Now I have to set aside some time to do it... <sighs>

[CovenantJr]

I considered it too, but there are too many other things I need to read, starting with the Lord of the Rings.

[burgs]

I re-read the first chrons, and was about 150 pages into TWL when Runes came out. It had been such a long time since I'd read either, and I really wanted to have the story clear in my head.

[avial]

Is it Covenant? Without a doubt. I'll bet it is Foul too, though

[Revan]

heh, no, I think it's just Thomas.

[aliantha]

Furls, good post! (Didn't want you to think you were totally ignored... )

I also would not put it past Foul to "fix" Jeremiah for now, then "break" him again later.

If it is indeed TC, then I want to know how he got there! C'mon, SRD, get busy on "Fatal Revenant"!!!

[Furls Fire]

LOL!! Thanks Ali

[Xar]

I agree... still, that doesn't mean that's truly Covenant who's riding towards Revelstone.

Although the "find me" explanation isn't conclusive evidence (because more than once, SRD has surprised us by making sure something didn't turn out as we thought it would be), it does suggest that there's something fishy going on here... plus, the description (although brief) suggests that it's a LIVING Covenant Linden sees, while he explicitly tells her "Be wary of me. Remember that I'm dead."...

Maybe that Covenant and that Jeremiah are decoys used by Foul to put pressure on Linden... make sure she trusts them and then show they weren't who they seem to be, thus throwing her off balance. Still, that wouldn't be very wise of Foul unless he were also able to silence Anele and/or the true Covenant: the moment Anele were to stand on lush grass, the true Covenant could possess him again and denounce the false one.

We know from what the Dead of Andelain say in the Second Chronicles that the dead have knowledge which is denied to the living. Maybe dead Covenant knew what would happen and warned Linden in hopes she would not trust the Covenant she's going to meet. He couldn't be more precise: the Law binds him in many ways, as he says himself, and besides, he knew he didn't have time to spare.

It might even be that his warning about his being dead refers to the fact that that way, he might end up controlled by the Illearth Stone as Foul controlled Kevin and Elena in TIW/TPTP... since the Demondim now wield the same emerald power.

At the end of WGW, I liked to believe that Covenant wasn't like the other Dead... that his becoming wild magic itself and the recognition of Glimmermere meant he had become some sort of "entity" of a higher rank than a mere dead soul. Even if true, though, we do not know what Covenant can do - and what he can't.
He seems to suggest he's weaker than Kastenessen and/or Esmer (the first time he communicates with Linden through Anele). But he also seems to imply that's not always the case - rather, that in THAT SITUATION he was weaker, but that there might be others in which he's stronger...

[Roynish]

OK ...
Here's what I think: The theme of overlapping identities seems to be rampant. And the lines between Who is Who seems to be becoming blurrier and blurrier.

For instance: Covenant = Foul. Foul is his dark side. We have had this beaten into our heads for six books now. He is also externalized as a separate entity. BOTH explanations are true: the 'eye of the paradox'.

Now, we have Anele. He is sometimes Anele, sometimes Foul, sometimes Covenant. Then we have whatsisname (my brain is fried from staying up too late reading this past week ) who has to be both friend and foe at once -- he can't help you if he can't also stab you in the back, it's his 'nature'. He is divided into two entities within himself, each seeking balance.

So therefore: Covenant IS Covenant. And he's also NOT Covenant. The lines again are blurred. Identities are not constants, they overlap. The boundaries around EVERYTHING are becoming hazier -- witness the Falls. The boundaries between Internal and External realities -- The Land is a dream, the land is real. Both are true. The Falls are Joan's fractured mind, they are also manifested in the external physical Land.

So -- in what SENSE they overlap is still unclear, and Mr. D. is keeping guessing, but to me, its clear already that the 'players' in the Land are not completely seperate and distinct entities anymore, and cannot be regarded as It Is Covenant, It Is Not Covenant. The question has no meaning unless you affirm both polar opposites, and stand in the eye of the paradox.

Have you been reading Foucault or Derrida lately. What a crock. Eventually a hierachy emerges. Dualisms can be deconstructed surely but eventually a moment arrives when one wins if even for a moment.
That is life.

[aliantha]

Xar, you've hit on the answer. In the first chapter of Fatal Revenant, Linden grabs Anele, drags him all the way up through Revelstone to the plateau, stands him on the grass next to Glimmermere, and says to him, "Okay, Covenant -- is that really you out there or not??"

Seriously -- good post!

Roynish wrote:

Have you been reading Foucault or Derrida lately. What a crock. Eventually a hierachy emerges.

So THAT'S where Hierachy came from!

[ur-bane]

I was re-reading Runes for the third time, and suddenly , having turned the last page and going right back to the first page, I came upon something interesting in the text that I had missed the first 2 readings.
I give you Linden in her office, speaking with Roger Covenant about releasing Joan to Roger.

These are Linden's impressions of Roger, taken directly from page 1:

Andyet--
If he were clay, only a slice or two with the sculptor's tool, only a line of severity on
either side of his mouth, and his cheeks would look as strict as commandments. A
squint of old suffering at the corners of his eyes: a little grey dust tro add years to his
hair. His eyes themselves were exactly the right color, a disturbed hue like the shade of
madness or prophecy. Oh, he could have been his father, if he had not been so young
and unmarked. If he had paid any price as extravagant as his father's--

Hmmm...."His eyes were exactly the right color..." (So Linden couldn't tell by his eyes that it was not Covenant.)

Could Foul be the "sculptor"? Could it be Roger, after all, sculpted by Foul to resemble his father in such a way as to fool even the most familiar of people?

[brinn18]

I was re-reading Runes for the third time, and suddenly , having turned the last page and going right back to the first page, I came upon something interesting in the text that I had missed the first 2 readings.
I give you Linden in her office, speaking with Roger Covenant about releasing Joan to Roger.

These are Linden's impressions of Roger, taken directly from page 1:

Andyet--
If he were clay, only a slice or two with the sculptor's tool, only a line of severity on
either side of his mouth, and his cheeks would look as strict as commandments. A
squint of old suffering at the corners of his eyes: a little grey dust tro add years to his
hair. His eyes themselves were exactly the right color, a disturbed hue like the shade of
madness or prophecy. Oh, he could have been his father, if he had not been so young
and unmarked. If he had paid any price as extravagant as his father's--

Hmmm...."His eyes were exactly the right color..." (So Linden couldn't tell by his eyes that it was not Covenant.)

Could Foul be the "sculptor"? Could it be Roger, after all, sculpted by Foul to resemble his father in such a way as to fool even the most familiar of people?

I mentioned that as well in another post ur-bane. If Foul can disguise himself, then who is to say he could not disguise Roger. SRD has a meaning for the things he writes, he specifically mentioned Rogers eyes in the prolog and Mentions TC's eyes at the very end...Im not sure if it is Roger, but I dont believe in Coincidences.

[burgs]

SRD has a meaning for the things he writes, he specifically mentioned Rogers eyes in the prolog and Mentions TC's eyes at the very end...Im not sure if it is Roger, but I dont believe in Coincidences.

What did he say about Covenant's eyes?

[brinn18]

SRD has a meaning for the things he writes, he specifically mentioned Rogers eyes in the prolog and Mentions TC's eyes at the very end...Im not sure if it is Roger, but I dont believe in Coincidences.

What did he say about Covenant's eyes?

When I say he, I am referring to SRD. At the end of Runes Linden thinks to herself, something like "the man riding beside Jeremiah, his eyes flashing with determination, was unmistakably Thomas Covenant." I dont have my book with me, but it was something along those lines I believe.

[I'm Murrin]

The specific line is this, the final paragraph:
"The other stranger was unmistakeably Thomas Covenant."
No mention of his eyes.

[brinn18]

hmmm sorry about that, I swore something was there about the eyes. I will have to check and see if it is a bit earlier.

[burgs]

The text was referring to Jeremiah - at least that's how I read it.

One was Jeremiah; her son beyond question. As the Master's mount pounded the dirt, the boy waved his arms, urging the horse to run faster, and shouted encouragment to the other riders.

Even from so far away, Linden could see that his eyes were afire with excitement. [my comment: This is referring to Jeremiah, because TC hasn't been mentioned yet]

The other stranger was unmistably Thomas Covenant.

Now this might be getting really picky, but Jeremiah is her son "beyond question". The other stranger is "unmistakably" TC. Those are not the same comments. One says definitively that it's Jeremiah. The other simply means "very distinctive". Ugh, I'm getting a head ache.

[I'm Murrin]

"Beyond question" certainly implies that Linden will undoubtedly accept this Jeremiah. "Umistakeably" suggests a physical resemblance which cannot possibly be anyone else, without suggesting at all how Linden feels about it.

[Revan]

I'm telling you, it has to be the real Covenant out there... Linden would know straight away if it wasn't. And she's going to be questioning him anyways. Trust me, it has to be him. Or this "fake" Thomas Covenant will be too uneasily uncovered to remain in the story for long.