Runes: Only a Beginning

[Mr.Land]

Hello everyone.

It's good to be back in the Land and back correpsonding in the Watch. I've been a bit busy lately starting a new job, and reading Runes, of course.

After lurking around this topic for a while it seems there are two main opinions of Runes; It was slow and a bit disappointing OR it was an imaginative beginning.

I have to say I felt it was both. After waiting more than twenty years for the Chronicles to continue a little letdown was inevitable (to say nothing of all our postings before the fact). Although the Prologue was some of Stephen's best writing to date the story was missing any sustained action. Most of all, perhaps, it was missing our beloved Covenant.

Yet we all know Donaldson is writing a four-book story arc here, and this is only the first. We also know he builds up tension through each book in a series. He doesn't write stand-alone novels. His works (whether science-fiction or fantasy) are epic. They take time to come to a boil. Runes is but the first act or movement in the last section of a grand symphony.

'But is he up to the task'?, we wonder. 'It's been a long time. He's not as young as he once was'. Unbelievers! This is his masterpiece. The only really relevant question is how well he pulls it off. With Runes behind me I'm looking forward to seeing what's in store for the Land, without undo expectations, just knowing it will be good, and will keep getting better.

[dlbpharmd]

Welcome!

That's an excellent beginning post, and I couldn't agree more.

[I'm Murrin]

I must say that whatever may be said about the structure and pace of the story in Runes, it cannot be said that the book was not an example of some of Donaldson's best writing to date. That 20 year break paid off.

[duchess of malfi]

I am in complete agreement with you, Murrin.

[Thaale]

I have to friendlily disagree with most of what you have said, and with the supporting comments.

It is simply not so that Donaldson did not write stand-alone novels in the earlier Covenant trilogies. Bane emphatically stands by itself. Of course we know from Foul’s message to the Lords that the Quest for the Staff of Law is only a chapter in the upcoming critical half-century, but the story of the Quest itself has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

Illearth just as definitely contains the complete stories of Elena and Troy. I don’t have to spell out in what ways Tree stands by itself even more than the others do. In fact, Land is the only installment which could possibly call merely part of a longer story. But ultimately Land stands on its own merits as well, and has a climactic ending (the caamora).

And notice that much more happens in Land and the other three books than happens in Runes. The geographic scope alone is just so much greater in any of them than in Runes. So is the scope of action, and the new characters and peoples introduced.

I also disagree that Runes contains SRD’s best “writing.” IMO he’s not a very good writer per se. He uses slightly off-key obscure words where a more common word would suit his meaning better. He’s far too florid to be a good writer in the professional journalist sense. His touch is far too heavy for him to be considered a good writer in the romantic or stylistic sense (contrast with Jack Vance, for instance).

He is, IMO, a good storyteller. He has created memorable characters in the past (though none in Runes, yet). He writes very good action sequences (I’m thinking in particular of the eels in Tree; fighting the grim in Wielder – and the Hamako part; pretty much anywhere Nom shows up; and Artagel’s battles in the Mordant’s Need books). He’s great at depicting apocalyptic destruction, be it of The Land, or of Lebbick, or of Morn. It’s painful, but very well done.

All that was absent from Runes. Linden and her companions don’t actually do anything. They move through time, but that isn’t like Covenant physically crossing The Land in Bane and seeing so much of it. The characters are generally not memorable. Liand pretty much defines sidekick. There is little if any plot. I find it hard to consider any of this good writing, and I know it’s not good storytelling.

[duchess of malfi]

I guess I just have crap taste in books, then, because I enjoyed reading it.

For me, the horse rite was worth the price of the book alone, and I thought both Stave and Esmer were great new characters. The one so stoic, with so much going on underneath the surface, and the other so divided...

[Thaale]

Well, different readers, different opinions.

The horse rite didn't do much for me. The Ranyhyn always kind of embarrassed me on SRD’s behalf. I mean, gushing over horses like an 11 year-old girl? Too reminiscent of Piers Anthony.

Stave’s stoicism was interesting the first time we encountered it (Bannor), but I can’t say it offered much new the umpteenth time around. I agree that Esmer was mildly interesting. He and Martiir (sp?) were pretty much it IMO, though. That's not 500 pages worth.

[I'm Murrin]

Actually, Duchess, Thaale does have a point about the characters. Stave is just another Bannor/Brinn/Cail. Esmer wasn't explored deeply enough to be as memorable as characters from the earlier books. I've mentioned it in other posts - Donaldson didn't seem to immerse us as deeply into the characters this time round, and the work has slightly less impact because of it.
And the horserite - if I'd blinked I might have missed it. Not as impressive as I had been expecting - perhaps if Donaldson had shown us the rest directly, shown us what Linden sees in the same way he showed Covenant's Soothtell, then it would have worked better.

[AMOK]

What's cool about life is that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I have literally been waiting for this book for over 20years!! I had very high expectations and I have to say - the story absolutely blew me away!

Spoiler

The concept of eternity being made available through the "Falls" so that some ancient banes / enemies can be accessed completes the story - you get the best of all worlds here: We are going to get some more of the history the Land and a new conflict that has really not been completely revealed yet and some very interesting / mysterious characters.

The only thing that disapointed me about the book was that it ended - and quite abruptly!

Spoiler

I personally loved it when Anele was finally sane enough to speak about what was going on with him during the kresh attack - how cool was that! It seemed like whenever Anele had something important to say, it was during some serious life threatening event. Viles coming? who cares, the old guy is talking...

I can't comment on whether SRD is a good writer / storyteller or not - my English grades in school disqualifies me - thus the interest and success in all things mathematical and science (and yes, I am a card carrying nerd.) But, dang, when you can read something and have it affect you in such a way that you can visualize the story for years afterwords. It could just be the richness of the Land and its characters - I don't know.

[Thaale]

Murrin wrote:

Esmer wasn't explored deeply enough to be as memorable as characters from the earlier books. I've mentioned it in other posts - Donaldson didn't seem to immerse us as deeply into the characters this time round, and the work has slightly less impact because of it.

Agreed. I said Esmer was mildly intriguing, but it’s as a curiosity, not as a personage. I want to know what the deal is with him as I did with Amok, Findail, and Vain. But he’s not humanly interesting like (non-human) Honninscrave, or Mhoram, or Linden herself.

Where are the strong secondary characters who can carry the story along in Covenant’s absence such as Linden, Troy, and Mhoram? What we have are Linden and then tertiary characters like Esmer.

[brinn18]

Murrin wrote:

Esmer wasn't explored deeply enough to be as memorable as characters from the earlier books. I've mentioned it in other posts - Donaldson didn't seem to immerse us as deeply into the characters this time round, and the work has slightly less impact because of it.

Agreed. I said Esmer was mildly intriguing, but it’s as a curiosity, not as a personage. I want to know what the deal is with him as I did with Amok, Findail, and Vain. But he’s not humanly interesting like (non-human) Honninscrave, or Mhoram, or Linden herself.

Where are the strong secondary characters who can carry the story along in Covenant’s absence such as Linden, Troy, and Mhoram? What we have are Linden and then tertiary characters like Esmer.

I read a post in another topic which mentioned that when you first meet any characters in the past TCOTC novels, you didnt immediately love them like you would after reading the complete series.
The same could be true of this series, we have barely scratched the surface so far, but we have Stave(who reminds me very much of Cail) Liand(another good stonedowner character?), the Manethrall who accompanied Linden into the past(I cant remeber his name) , Esmer who is as much of an Enigma as Vain was, and Anele, who could end up being more important then anyone knows.. We have 3 more books not only to explore these characters, but also to meet many new characters as well!

[High Lord Tolkien]

Damn you Thaale!
I hate it when someone, in an intelligent and thoughtful way, criticizes something I think is perfect and makes me re-evaluate it!



Now that I think about it, I did read Runes pretty quick.
There does seem to be more "substance" in Wounded over Runes.

I can spend weeks re reading Wounded there's so much stuff jammed in there.
My second read of Runes just took 2 days.

What's the total word count in Runes compared to Wounded anyway?
Were the words spaced/edited in such a way to beef up the page total in Runes?

Did we only get 2/3 of a 2nd Chronicle length book?

Just wondering.

[drew]

as far as charactors go, Anele was my favorite one yet (even more than Foamfollower). During into the mountains and scions of stone I nearly broke down listening to Anele talk (and I'm a tough guy!!). It was so deep when he was reading the mountains, and when he was spilling his guts-to me that's GOOD WRITTING and GOOD STORYTELLING.

If this is what we have to look foreward to...I'm hooked.

[Thaale]

brinn wrote:

I read a post in another topic which mentioned that when you first meet any characters in the past TCOTC novels, you didnt immediately love them like you would after reading the complete series.

The same could be true of this series...

That could happen, brinn, and I'm hoping it will. But even if you didn't "immediately" love Foamfollower, certainly he was well on the way to establishing himself by the end of the first book, right? We only got one book to know Elena (and Troy). So already I would say the slow start is a bit unpromising.

Sunder, for instance never interested me in TWL, and that never changed. Pitchwife, OTOH, needed far less than a book to make his presence felt.

[Thaale]

High Lord Tolkien, I don't think Runes is short, though I agree that it reads that way (because you keep waiting for something to happen).

The Wounded Land is my favorite TC book. It was painful to read the first time, and parts are still very distressing though I've read it four or five times. But it's effective because of that. And it's a great adventure story.

[duchess of malfi]

I did not find Stave to be like Cail at all.

Cail accepted the harsh judgements of his people. It's part of why he went off to the merwives, after all, because his people found him lacking and he agreed with that judgement.

Stave, in being strong enough to reject those harsh haruchai judgements, shows a great strength of character. I look greatly forward to seeing how his situation will play out.

Spoiler

The guy has some serious balls!!!

[I'm Murrin]

Stave didn't reject the judgements of his people. "I would have done the same in his place" is what he said about his severance - he accepted that cutting him off was the right thing for them to do in that situation.

[duchess of malfi]

But he rejected their harsh opinions of Linden. If not for the impending siege, who knows what they would have decided in regards to her?
He gives me hope.

[burgs]

I believe that Donaldson's typical florid style is mostly absent from this book, and that's why I feel it's one of his best pieces of writing to date - purely from the perspective of the art of writing.

He's crisper and much cleaner.

So while the criticism of Donaldson writing in too much of an operatic style, or being to intricately complex (not only in story but in words) holds true for his earlier works, I think he's shaken it off here in Runes fairly well.