Who does Linden love more?

Post by **dANdeLION** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:54 pm

Consider this; love is a choice. Linden chose to love Thomas because of what she knew about him. Linden chose to love Jeremiah because he needed someone to care for him, and loving him is really just a reaffirmation of he love for Thomas and the Land. Let's face it; she doesn't know Jeremiah at all; he shut out the real world years ago. I think we will find out who Jeremiah is in the next books, as will Linden. Then maybe her love for him will grow stronger if and when it is returned. Until then, I vote for her love for Thomas, which was real (as opposed to idealistic), and reciprocated.

Post by **Revan** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:04 pm

dANdeLION wrote:Consider this; love is a choice. Linden chose to love Thomas because of what she knew about him. Linden chose to love Jeremiah because he needed someone to care for him, and loving him is really just a reaffirmation of he love for Thomas and the Land. Let's face it; she doesn't know Jeremiah at all; he shut out the real world years ago. I think we will find out who Jeremiah is in the next books, as will Linden. Then maybe her love for him will grow stronger if and when it is returned. Until then, I vote for her love for Thomas, which was real (as opposed to idealistic), and reciprocated.

Excellent post dAN!

i totally agree, she can't love Jeremiah more than Thomas... because Thomas was the one that taught her all those feelings in the first place. The reason she took Jeremiah into her heart was to replace Covenant's there.

Post by **burgs** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:42 pm

A mother will always chose her child over everything and everyone. I doubt that even a thought occurs.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:12 pm

True, burgs66, and it put me in mind of another consequence - so far we seem to be thinking of Covenant as a legendary figure, rather than the real man we knew from the last six books. He has already had one love choose the safety of her child over her love for himself; I suspect we will be taken through the pain of having the same thing happen to him again.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:56 pm

But you must remember, Jeremiah isn't really her son.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:16 pm

Of course he is, Revan. As far as she is concerned, he is.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:24 pm

not her blood son, is what I mean.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:01 pm

It. Doesn't. Matter.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:19 pm

It does, regardless of what you think, there is a greater bond when the mother has had that child in her womb... A greater love or some sort...

Post by **burgs** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:47 pm

Nope. I'm adopted, and when I was hurt and in the hospital, my mother (adoptive mother) came rushing into the emergency room with all the worry and hysteria that any blood mother would have. Frankly, it surprised me, because I'd previously believed that as the only adopted kid in the family, I was somehow loved less. I learned a lesson that night.

I guarantee you, she loves Jeremiah as fiercely as if he came from her womb.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:10 pm

Seriously, Darth, SRD spent the first five chapters trying his hardest to show us that it doesn't matter.

Post by **burgs** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:33 pm

Is there a mother here that can weigh in on this to silence the "unbelievers"?

But you're absolutely correct, Murrin: IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Post by **aliantha** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:38 pm

I'm a mom; I'll weigh in (although I think burgs66 is in a better position to answer this question than I am, since I did give birth to my kids).

Mom-love is hardwired in by nature; you don't have to have given birth to your kids for that drive to protect them at all costs to kick in. That's why we're so appalled when we hear news stories about mothers who let their boyfriends beat up on the kids -- we're thinking, "What's *wrong* with that woman??"

Murrin, I hadn't thought about this from Covenant's viewpoint, but you're right -- he might very well have a tough time watching another woman pick her child over him.

Post by **burgs** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:01 pm

I know this is somewhat off topic, but it does speak to love, so it's not entirely off.

I have two dogs and a cat that I've raised since they were eight weeks old. The dogs are ten and a half, and the cat is eleven and a half. I love them fiercely. I might even love them more than a fair number of people that I'm close to (I won't mention names

).

If animals can arouse such deep emotion, then surely Jeremiah could as well. For Linden.

Post by **Revan** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:13 pm

But that's beside the point... Jeremiah, so far in this story, has shown no love for Linden. Not because he doesn't; but because he can't. Thomas on the other hand, gave Linden very type of love she could ever want... Jeremiah gave her nothing like that.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:22 pm

Furls is a great example of someone who has adopted some of her children and given birth to some of her children. And I bet she would be willing to walk through the fires of hell for any of them. You know her -- would she love any of her kids less then the others? No, she loves them all fiercely, passionately.

Linden loves her son. And he is her son, whether she gave birth to him or not.

And I'm trying to think of how to put this in a way that it isn't all garbled.

Linden was horribly emotionally abused as a child by her parents. I think this might make her even more protective of her child (who was also a victim of horrifying abuse by his biological mother) than even a normal mom would be. I think to her, Jeremiah is more than a little boy. Sure he is a little boy who needs her, and she loves him on that basis. But he also represents to her all of the small, helpless people that have been tortured and hurt for no reason by those who should love them. And since she was once one of those small, helpless people herself, she feels a burning need to protect this little boy from ever being hurt in such a way again. Hope that makes a bit of sense...

Post by **burgs** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:45 pm

Darth Revan wrote:But that's beside the point... Jeremiah, so far in this story, has shown no love for Linden. Not because he doesn't; but because he can't. Thomas on the other hand, gave Linden very type of love she could ever want... Jeremiah gave her nothing like that.

I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that Jeremiah felt love for Linden (that's something we really don't know - there is something going on inside of him); I was commenting that Linden definitely loved Jeremiah.

Post by **burgs** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:51 pm

duchess of malfi wrote:Linden was horribly emotionally abused as a child by her parents. I think this might make her even more protective of her child (who was also a victim of horrifying abuse by his biological mother) than even a normal mom would be. I think to her, Jeremiah is more than a little boy. Sure he is a little boy who needs her, and she loves him on that basis. But he also represents to her all of the small, helpless people that have been tortured and hurt for no reason by those who should love them. And since she was once one of those small, helpless people herself, she feels a burning need to protect this little boy from ever being hurt in such a way again. Hope that makes a bit of sense...

I think you're right about this. We haven't taken into account Linden's own personal torture. Emotional abuse suffered in the past generally leads to two completely opposite reactions: 1) You become an abuser; 2) You become overly protective of people who are abused.

For example, in elementary school I was a bit of a dork, and was teased something fierce. Today when I see children teasing other children, I am enraged. It's one of the reasons I didn't go into teaching, which was an option, and something that appealed to me. There was a concern on my part that I would be very, very harsh with anyone who teased. Not that I'd mess them up physically, although I might want to in the darkness of my heart, but they would surely suffer in my class because of my bias. I would have ripped their papers to shreds.

Post by **Furls Fire** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:42 pm

burgs66 wrote:Is there a mother here that can weigh in on this to silence the "unbelievers"?

Duchy wrote:Furls is a great example of someone who has adopted some of her children and given birth to some of her children. And I bet she would be willing to walk through the fires of hell for any of them. You know her -- would she love any of her kids less then the others? No, she loves them all fiercely, passionately.

I have 6 biological and 5 adopted children, and I love them all completely and utterly. There is no difference in my heart wether or not Ryan is my biological son and Jordan is my adopted son...they are BOTH my sons. There is no difference in my heart whether Chelsea is my biological daughter and Zia my adopted daughter. They are both my daughters.

Is Jeremiah Linden's son? Yes. In every sense of the word. Even if he doesn't show her love in return, her love for him is absolute. I don't love my children because they love me back...I love them because they are MY children. ALL of them.

Post by **burgs** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:56 pm

Beautifully put.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Who does Linden love more?

Whom?