"Stephen Donaldson raped my childhood..."

Post by **Wormwood** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:40 pm

I disagree about AIDS. AIDS is a cause celebre. Everbody wants to donate to causes to cure AIDS. No matter that heart disease, lung cancer, and prostate cancer kill ten times the number of people that AIDS do, AIDS research gets tons more funding. The media has gone through great lengths to make it so that people with AIDS are not ostracized anymore the way Covenant was. We even gave Magic Johnson his own talk show (briefly, he was that bad). People with AIDS may once have been cast out of society, but not anymore.

Post by **drew** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:43 pm

I aggree, If it wasn't leprosy, AIDS would not be the next logical choice.
In fact I can't think af any other disease that would fit. Leprocy is just so....lepourus(sp)-even the name sounds dirty and evil.

Post by **burgs** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:40 pm

Yes and NO, regarding AIDS being a cause celebre.

It is "fashionable" to donate to AIDS charities and foundations because Hollywood stars wear red ribbons on their dresses or lapels. Why? The entertainment industry, from actors, actresses, set people, wig designers, choreographers, etc., has been arguably the hardest hit industry. These "celebrities" have lost thousands of people close to them, and so they speak to it.

But I'm going back to my point about gay rights parades. Watch the news after the local parade in your town. If they do their reporting right (and they always do) you will see many, many signs that say something to the effect of "AIDS is God's cure for faggots". It's a sad and tragic reality, but this is a feeling that many people in this country share.

Post by **MrKABC** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:10 pm

I also read the Chronicles at a young age - 12 if I am not mistaken. The rape depiction didn't turn me into a raving monster - if anything, the impressions of High Lord Mhoram's courage, Elena's vulnerability, Saltheart Foamfollower's laughter, and Bannor's solidity were forged into my imagination for all time.

When my peers in school were laughing at "leper" jokes, I would take offense, noting that Hansen's disease wasn't their fault and shouldn't be made fun of.

As a matter of fact, going through college, I despaired of ever finishing. I would then remind myself "despair is Maker-work" and keep forging ahead, and finally succeeded.

My favorite quote is from Brinn:

"This is the grace that has been given to you - to bear what must be borne."

Post by JD » Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:02 pm

Unfortunately people have a tendacy to make fun of or ostracise groups of people for something they are afraid of or don't understand. Leprosy is probably the best example of this. For thousands of years it was thought that leprosy was caused by the person being a sinner, it was God's punishment. The same thing happened in the early 80's with AIDS. It was first thought that only homosexual activity caused AIDS. Then as the spread of AIDS grew and people started getting it from blood transfusions, unprotected sex, and the sharing of dirty needles. People finally realized that it was not "Homosexual" disease.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:08 pm

MrKABC wrote:"This is the grace that has been given to you - to bear what must be borne."

That is a wonderful quote. If it wasn't so long, I would have liked to get that as the inscription on my Ofiicial Kevin's Watch White Gold Ring.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:30 pm

CovenantJr wrote:
MrKABC wrote:"This is the grace that has been given to you - to bear what must be borne."
That is a wonderful quote. If it wasn't so long, I would have liked to get that as the inscription on my Ofiicial Kevin's Watch White Gold Ring.

I would imagine, after a few years (and kids), many people would like it engraved on their wedding rings as well.

Did I say that?
Nope, I must have a virus on my PC or something......

Post by **CovenantJr** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:38 pm

Thankfully I haven't reached any of those circumstances yet

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:24 pm

I would imagine, after a few years (and kids), many people would like it engraved on their wedding rings as well.

Post by **ceallaighq** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:43 pm

*shrugs*

I thought the original poster was asking if we thought the lastest book violated (raped) our youthful admiration (childhood) for the original books.

I didn't. I wasn't totally blown away by the story, but I was oh so happy to be back in the Land.

Post by **MrKABC** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:37 pm

CovenantJr wrote: Thankfully I haven't reached any of those circumstances yet

You are fortunate! Once you do... that quote will have yet even more significance for you!

Back to the whole "raped my childhood" thing: I believe that concept sprang up after the release of Star Wars Episode I, when people realized that the movie did not (and could not, IMHO) live up to the absurdly hyped expectations.

I remember hearing it said that after some 20 odd years of no "Star Wars" that George Lucas could have shown 2 hours of his hairy a** on the screen and SW fans would have lined up for blocks to see it.

Now, contrast that with a new Thomas Covenant book series. There is no world-crushing hype. I for one didn't even know there was a new book coming out until, on a whim, I googled "Thomas Covenant" and discovered this site. I had given up on a new book about the Land many years ago. (And I had no interest in what Mordant needed, or what man rode through what...)

Therefore, IMHO I feel that absent the hype, there are no absurdly high expectations to be met, and the book, despite minor quibbles, is one hell of a damned fine read.

Post by **SoulQuest1970** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:10 pm

This is an interesting discussion. I found the books very young. In fact, my older brother gave them to me. He is 7 years older than me. I was in 8th grade. I did not feel overly shocked. Due to circumstances in my life I was already personally familier with similar crimes by the age of 3. My childhood was taken from me before I was 9. So by 13, it didn't shock me, but I was very angry with Donaldson and TC. By the time I got to Foamfollower I began to have compassion for TC. Eventually I was able to forgive... Donalsdon and even my own personal abuser. Now I treasure the story. I guess the most important thing I learned was compassion.

Post by **Creator** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:41 pm

SoulQuest1970 wrote:This is an interesting discussion. I found the books very young. In fact, my older brother gave them to me. He is 7 years older than me. I was in 8th grade. I did not feel overly shocked. Due to circumstances in my life I was already personally familier with similar crimes by the age of 3. My childhood was taken from me before I was 9. So by 13, it didn't shock me, but I was very angry with Donaldson and TC. By the time I got to Foamfollower I began to have compassion for TC. Eventually I was able to forgive... Donalsdon and even my own personal abuser. Now I treasure the story. I guess the most important thing I learned was compassion.

You are a stong person. *sighs* What can I say ...

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:21 pm

MrKABC, I'd check out the 2 Mordant books.
They are VERY good!
IMHO.

Post by **MrKABC** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:20 am

High Lord Tolkien wrote:MrKABC, I'd check out the 2 Mordant books.
They are VERY good!
IMHO.

That is a strong recommendation - I think I shall... After all, I will need a SRD fix in the LONG wait for Revenant...

Thanks HLT!!

Post by **Troy** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:47 am

How the rape is handled in a movie will be very interesting to see. While a key moment in the books, it may have to be glossed over, or omitted on film. I can't see how the rape of a 16 yr old girl , regardless of the unbelief alibi can be portrayed.

Thoughts?

Troy

Post by **MrKABC** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:22 pm

Troy wrote:How the rape is handled in a movie will be very interesting to see. While a key moment in the books, it may have to be glossed over, or omitted on film. I can't see how the rape of a 16 yr old girl , regardless of the unbelief alibi can be portrayed.

Thoughts?

Troy

I'm guessing that they will portray it like "Excalibur" - Uther's rape of the Queen. It's a very important part of the story and can't be glossed over!

Post by **kctipton** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:30 am

I couldn't leave the books alone in high school and, I think, middle school. I was most shocked by the rape of Lena and couldn't quite fathom the intense "leper outcast unclean" mantra Covenant experienced, but focusing on most of the rest was fun.

Post by **Nerdanel** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:05 pm

I read LFB at the tender age of 19 and was shocked by the rape scene as well as the general level of emotion. I didn't the book was that great, largely because I was reading the Notorious Finnish Translation from Hell and translations on that level of badness can make anything look pretty much incompetent. However I found I was unable to forget the story and when I found The Wounded Land (untranslated, the translation of LFB killed Donaldson's career prospects here) from the library and was hooked from the first chapter.

I think I would actually have been much less affected by things like the rape if I had read the book when I was younger and less emotionally mature. I noticed a similar thing with Christopher Priest's Inverted World after reading after 10+ years. It was brilliant both times, but only on the latter reading I really started to appreciate the deep sadness of it.

Post by **Roynish** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:54 am

I read the books when I was 18 and found the TC character very difficult to sympathise with. Now 20 years later he still can be a real pain in the arse but lifes difficulties are somewhat different when you are 40. So things have changed somewhat in my attitude to TC.
On the Star Wars thing, having recently watched the whole series all the way through (well the latest one is not out on DVD) and what strikes you is the campy feel of most of the original Star Wars. They are much funnier and escapist then the prequels. I do however love the latest one. Finally I think he got that one right. The Phantom Menace and Attack Of The Clones are lamentable blights (but lets not forget the Ewoks).
I think nostalgia and youthful innocence for the original 3 masks some pretty lame sections as well. And its terribly bad sci-fi. The technology has more holes in it than well any sci-fi I have ever read.