(I have my own theory but I wanted to hear if this has been discussed before, and what the conclusion was if any.)
Thomas Coventant and the Keirsey temperament sorter
Moderators: Orlion, kevinswatch
Thomas Coventant and the Keirsey temperament sorter
I have come across this fascinating psychological theory about temperaments and I was wondering if anyone had tried to place TC in a temperament category?
(I have my own theory but I wanted to hear if this has been discussed before, and what the conclusion was if any.)
(I have my own theory but I wanted to hear if this has been discussed before, and what the conclusion was if any.)
"Und wenn sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf." Bernd das Brot
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I took the online test a loooong time ago, and it determined that I was an ENTP (typelogic.com/entp.html). I'd be interested to see what Covenant would rate, but don't have the time to track down a new online test. Here's the old link I have if anyone wishes to pursue it:
www.ibiblio.org/personality/keirsey.html
www.ibiblio.org/personality/keirsey.html
The Keirsey temperament sorter is a test which determines which personality type you (or somebody) is according to the Keirsey method. For more information about this you can visit
www.keirsey.com
Which has som introductory information. The Keirsey method is very much like the Myers-Briggs type system if you are familiar with this.
My though was that we could run TC through one of these tests and see what came up. We are fortunate in that we know enough about TC that we might be capable of answering some of the questions that come up.
If you want to try it go to:
www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
and try out this test. This is a Myers-Briggs test if I am not mistaken. (And if you have the time, try to answer like TC would answer and see what you come up with.
)
www.keirsey.com
Which has som introductory information. The Keirsey method is very much like the Myers-Briggs type system if you are familiar with this.
My though was that we could run TC through one of these tests and see what came up. We are fortunate in that we know enough about TC that we might be capable of answering some of the questions that come up.
If you want to try it go to:
www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
and try out this test. This is a Myers-Briggs test if I am not mistaken. (And if you have the time, try to answer like TC would answer and see what you come up with.
)"Und wenn sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf." Bernd das Brot
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InTP, high on the introvert, low on the perceiving.
I got ISTJ for TC as well, and it seems pretty dead on
I got ISTJ for TC as well, and it seems pretty dead on
ISTJs are often called inspectors. They have a keen sense of right and wrong, especially in their area of interest and/or responsibility. They are noted for devotion to duty. Punctuality is a watchword of the ISTJ. The secretary, clerk, or business(wo)man by whom others set their clocks is likely to be an ISTJ.
As do other Introverted Thinkers, ISTJs often give the initial impression of being aloof and perhaps somewhat cold. Effusive expression of emotional warmth is not something that ISTJs do without considerable energy loss.
ISTJs are most at home with "just the facts, Ma'am." They seem to perform at highest efficiency when employing a step-by-step approach. Once a new procedure has proven itself (i.e., has been shown "to work,")the ISTJ can be depended upon to carry it through, even at the expense of their own health.
ISTJs are easily frustrated by the inconsistencies of others, especially when the second parties don't keep their commitments. But they usually keep their feelings to themselves unless they are asked. And when asked, they don't mince words. Truth wins out over tact. The grim determination of the ISTJ vindicates itself in officiation of sports events, judiciary functions, or an other situation which requires making tough calls and sticking to them.
His SJ orientation draws the ISTJ into the service of established institutions. Home, social clubs, government, schools, the military, churches -- these are the bastions of the SJ. "We've always done it this way" is often reason enough for many ISTJs. Threats to time-honored traditions or established organizations (e.g., a "run" on the bank) are the undoing of SJs, and are to be fought at all costs.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
I took the test recently and learned I was a INTJ (Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Judging). This is a "Mastermind" type, as described thus:
To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness",
of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for
simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific
rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized
knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When
it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several
-- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not
they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and
perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for
improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them
from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is
the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often
ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own
research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces
an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints
of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.
INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in
part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination
and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is
for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both
perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs
can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project.
Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose
their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have
also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical
decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the
other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about
recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a
project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might
not even notice.
In the broadest terms, what INTJs "do" tends to be what they "know".
Typical INTJ career choices are in the sciences and engineering, but
they can be found wherever a combination of intellect and incisiveness
are required (e.g., law, some areas of academia). INTJs can rise to
management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing
their abilities as well as enhancing them, and (whether for the sake
of ambition or the desire for privacy) many also find it useful to
learn to simulate some degree of surface conformism in order to mask
their inherent unconventionality.
Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's
Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others
(usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time
and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that
make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead
them in interpersonal situations.
This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the
social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and
less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which
most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate
matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be
naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and
misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that
INTJs really want people to make sense. This sometimes results in
a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of
expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic
relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and
directness.
Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their
intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship.
Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy
that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good
substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as
tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can
then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to
understand and support those they care about, and those relationships
which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be
characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.
Famous INTJs include Dan Ackroyd, Susan B. Anthony, Augustus Caesar,
Peter Jennings and Jane Austen.
To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness",
of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for
simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific
rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized
knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When
it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several
-- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not
they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and
perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.
INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for
improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them
from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is
the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often
ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own
research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces
an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints
of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.
INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in
part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination
and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is
for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both
perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs
can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project.
Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose
their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have
also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical
decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the
other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about
recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a
project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might
not even notice.
In the broadest terms, what INTJs "do" tends to be what they "know".
Typical INTJ career choices are in the sciences and engineering, but
they can be found wherever a combination of intellect and incisiveness
are required (e.g., law, some areas of academia). INTJs can rise to
management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing
their abilities as well as enhancing them, and (whether for the sake
of ambition or the desire for privacy) many also find it useful to
learn to simulate some degree of surface conformism in order to mask
their inherent unconventionality.
Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's
Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others
(usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time
and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that
make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead
them in interpersonal situations.
This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the
social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and
less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which
most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate
matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be
naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and
misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that
INTJs really want people to make sense.
This sometimes results ina peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of
expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic
relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and
directness.
Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their
intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship.
Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy
that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good
substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as
tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can
then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to
understand and support those they care about, and those relationships
which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be
characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.
Famous INTJs include Dan Ackroyd, Susan B. Anthony, Augustus Caesar,
Peter Jennings and Jane Austen.
"O let my name be in the Book of Love!
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam
This is incredibly interesting. Of all the people who have taken the test here so far (and published the result), myself included (INTJ) all are of the NT type, also called the rationals.
As this type is quite rare according to Keirsey this might be more than just coincidence.
As this type is quite rare according to Keirsey this might be more than just coincidence.
"Und wenn sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf." Bernd das Brot
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Having read the book about the different types of temperament I have no problems understanding that there is a great number of NT types here.
What surprises me though, is the ISTJ result for TC. Although I accept the validity of the test result I have always considered TC to be something akin to the INFP type. If that sounds strange to you I will quote the book (Please understand med II) on an important point.
What surprises me though, is the ISTJ result for TC. Although I accept the validity of the test result I have always considered TC to be something akin to the INFP type. If that sounds strange to you I will quote the book (Please understand med II) on an important point.
Because of this, and other things, I have always considered TC to be one of the idealists of the world. Does this sound strange?Deeply committed to the positive and the good, yet taught to believe there is evil inthem, the can come to develop a certain fascination with the problem of good and evil, sacred and profane. They are drawn toward purity, but can become engrossed with sin, continously on the lookout for the wickedness that lurks within them. Then, when they believe they have yielded to an impure temptation, they may be given to acts of self-sacrifice in atonement.
"Und wenn sie mich suchen, ich halte mich in der Nähe des Wahnsinns auf." Bernd das Brot
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Just for the heck of it. *bump*
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner