I believe you're thinking of Anthony Hopkins.khatalenabwraith wrote:When I first looked up a website about Stephen R. Donaldson (many years ago) there was a very small question regarding who would SRD want to play Covenant (about the time he wrote the books). Does anyone remember who it was? They even had a picture of this actor with the words coming from him saying "Don't touch me".
Covenant Heads For Movies
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CovenantJr
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Re: I'll buy the popcorn...
Anthony Hopkins is correct!
CovenantJr: 
Good job!
Good job![spoiler]"...the loveliness of the Land has only grown more precious to me as my senses have been
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
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wayfriend
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I've tried to follow all the movie threads. However, no one has mentioned yet what I believe is the largest most fundamental impediment to this movie (IMO).
Everyone is concerned about the rape scene. Rightly so - if the movie cannot get a PG-13 rating, it won't have much chance of being a blockbuster, or of attracting merchandising, which means less money will be spent on making it.
People are concerned about Coventant being unlikable. That's not an issue - how many movies can we name which are about an unlikable jerk who has a magical experience and learns how to love and care? Liar, Liar, etc.
But the most significant problem will be: the ring.
I can easily imagine that, as soon as someone tries to pitch a movie about an epic fantasy centered on a man with a magic ring, especially this year, people will classify it as a Tolkien rip-off out of hand. This happened when the book came out, too. Even if you realize it is not a rip-off, you know that a majority of the movie-going public will think it is, and even if the movie-going public can be swayed, you know the critics will latch on to it and that's what we'll see on Entertainment Tonite - and that's a serious marketing issue to contend with.
(Just read the reviews on barnsandnoble.com if you want a good sample of average joe opinions - here's a fair sample:
Lord Copyright Infringement's Bane
This book is one of the most vile and despicable means of making money. To think that Lord Foul's Bane could actually be published is as easy as thinking that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. The concept of Del Rey, a publishing company that only accepts great works of art, would allow such trash to enter the mainstream world of books is astoundingly wretched. Stephen R. Donaldson cannot even be congratulated on his copying technique, since it is so blatantly obvious that he can think of no ideas on his own, relying solely on the works of literary masters. Thomas Covenant starts out with a ring made of white gold and if you take out the word 'white', you have something very similar to Tolkien. He travels through a strange land meeting Elves who live in a symbiotic relationship with the trees, exactly like the Elves in Lothlorien. He then is taken by a giant (hmm...Ent) to a large city with many levels (Minas Tirith). He then goes with a clan of horse people (Rohirrim) and in the end goes inside a large volacno, where the ring starts to wear on him. Imagine that! Well, actually, Tolkien did. My advice to you; go read the original.
)
Does anyone else think that the ring is a serious impediment?
Everyone is concerned about the rape scene. Rightly so - if the movie cannot get a PG-13 rating, it won't have much chance of being a blockbuster, or of attracting merchandising, which means less money will be spent on making it.
People are concerned about Coventant being unlikable. That's not an issue - how many movies can we name which are about an unlikable jerk who has a magical experience and learns how to love and care? Liar, Liar, etc.
But the most significant problem will be: the ring.
I can easily imagine that, as soon as someone tries to pitch a movie about an epic fantasy centered on a man with a magic ring, especially this year, people will classify it as a Tolkien rip-off out of hand. This happened when the book came out, too. Even if you realize it is not a rip-off, you know that a majority of the movie-going public will think it is, and even if the movie-going public can be swayed, you know the critics will latch on to it and that's what we'll see on Entertainment Tonite - and that's a serious marketing issue to contend with.
(Just read the reviews on barnsandnoble.com if you want a good sample of average joe opinions - here's a fair sample:
Lord Copyright Infringement's Bane
This book is one of the most vile and despicable means of making money. To think that Lord Foul's Bane could actually be published is as easy as thinking that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. The concept of Del Rey, a publishing company that only accepts great works of art, would allow such trash to enter the mainstream world of books is astoundingly wretched. Stephen R. Donaldson cannot even be congratulated on his copying technique, since it is so blatantly obvious that he can think of no ideas on his own, relying solely on the works of literary masters. Thomas Covenant starts out with a ring made of white gold and if you take out the word 'white', you have something very similar to Tolkien. He travels through a strange land meeting Elves who live in a symbiotic relationship with the trees, exactly like the Elves in Lothlorien. He then is taken by a giant (hmm...Ent) to a large city with many levels (Minas Tirith). He then goes with a clan of horse people (Rohirrim) and in the end goes inside a large volacno, where the ring starts to wear on him. Imagine that! Well, actually, Tolkien did. My advice to you; go read the original.
)
Does anyone else think that the ring is a serious impediment?
.
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kevinswatch
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Well, people who post reviews like that just need to get their head out of Tolkien's butt.
Hopefully they won't just make this movie for the mindless mainstream public. Which would be hard, since most movies now a days seem to work extra hard at targeting movies for the mainstream public, so they make more $$$. Quite a paradox.
I say if anyone complains that Thomas Covenant is too similar to Lord of the Rings, then we just call those people the morons that they are and move on.
Don't mind me. I can't really put together a complete thought on this right now. I'll post again later.-jay
(Remember, JRRT is the poor reader's SRD)
Hopefully they won't just make this movie for the mindless mainstream public. Which would be hard, since most movies now a days seem to work extra hard at targeting movies for the mainstream public, so they make more $$$. Quite a paradox.
I say if anyone complains that Thomas Covenant is too similar to Lord of the Rings, then we just call those people the morons that they are and move on.
Don't mind me. I can't really put together a complete thought on this right now. I'll post again later.-jay
(Remember, JRRT is the poor reader's SRD)
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CovenantJr
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Alynna Lis Eachann
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Elves? Where was there anything even remotely resembling an Elf in LFB? And last time I checked, the Ramen didn't cut off Ranyhyn tails to make plumes for their helmets...
Grrr. Things like that make me furious. Unfortunately, I think you're right, Wayfriend. People are very likely to see this as a LOTR rip-off. I know there's no studio in the world that would take the chance (movies are meant to make money, after all), but the best way to make this things would be to ignore what the public, the industry and the critics might think and just be as true to the story as one can be on film. I should like to think that the results will speak for themselves. And, to be frank, TCTC is not for the masses. Maybe they don't deserve these movies.
(Yeah, still bitter. Heh, what would John Orloff think?)
Grrr. Things like that make me furious. Unfortunately, I think you're right, Wayfriend. People are very likely to see this as a LOTR rip-off. I know there's no studio in the world that would take the chance (movies are meant to make money, after all), but the best way to make this things would be to ignore what the public, the industry and the critics might think and just be as true to the story as one can be on film. I should like to think that the results will speak for themselves. And, to be frank, TCTC is not for the masses. Maybe they don't deserve these movies. (Yeah, still bitter. Heh, what would John Orloff think?)
"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
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CovenantJr
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Alynna Lis Eachann
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I question the Sci-Fi channel's being the best for the job. They're leaning too much to the mass audience themselves these days, as I've noted elsewhere. Some independent studio might be a better candidate, but then, of course, the budget would be significantly smaller than a movie of this scope needs, and good digital work would be hard to come by.
Hmm.... there's already a conspiracy of three involved here: three lovers of the Land who've taken it upon themselves to attempt this project... perhaps they might scout out other SRD fans to help them out.
Hmm.... there's already a conspiracy of three involved here: three lovers of the Land who've taken it upon themselves to attempt this project... perhaps they might scout out other SRD fans to help them out.
"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
Reading that kind of dismissive review just makes me appreciate even more to be here among fellow readers who truly understand SRD. I mean, what point would there be in trying to convince the worth of the Chronicles to that reviewer? Instead of assessing LFB's story in its own right, that person is only interested in singling out things similar to Tolkien, and at the most superficial level. Not a very open-minded way of seeing things.
I agree, Wayfriend. Any kind of "magic ring" will inevitably have ignorant people everywhere foaming at the mouth about a "Tolkien rip-off."
But we shouldn't allow closed-minded people to interfere with the potential movie, just as we don't allow such dismissive attitudes to interfere with our enjoyment of the books.
I agree, Wayfriend. Any kind of "magic ring" will inevitably have ignorant people everywhere foaming at the mouth about a "Tolkien rip-off."
But we shouldn't allow closed-minded people to interfere with the potential movie, just as we don't allow such dismissive attitudes to interfere with our enjoyment of the books.
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Kymbierlee
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Perfect! That's exactly how it should be done, Matrixman. wOOt!As far as the opening scenes, I'm not enthusiastic about the idea of showing the Land's heroic past right away. That's just aping what Jackson did. For what it's worth, my own view is they should immediately establish Covenant's character and the "reality" of his world. Think a "Wizard of Oz" effect for grown-ups: show Covenant's bitter existence as outcast in the unforgiving real world before bringing him and the viewer into the dazzling Technicolor brilliance of the Land. I think it's all-important that you first create an emotional connection between the viewer and Covenant. This is the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, not the Chronicles of Berek Halfhand. If the audience doesn't first understand and sympathize with Covenant's plight, then he's in trouble. He can't compete with Berek.
As for all of this LOTR crap, anyone who has ever read TCTC knows that is as far a cry from a LOTR rip off as the Pope is from a Pagan Priestess. Personally, I don't think JRRT can hold a candle to SRD- I never did. Let's hope that enough hype goes along with the making of the movie(s) that it will encourage people to go out and read the books even before they see the film. Anyone who reads these books can't help but love them if they know their arse from a potato cake. It's pretty obvious that whoever did that review on barnesandnoble.com never read more than the back cover of LFB. Otherwise there would be no mention of elves, or ents. It can't be taken seriously. I am all for sitting back, waiting, hoping for the best, and taking just and terrible revenge if the movie strays too far from the TC we all know and love.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire.
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Loredoctor
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Donaldson has admitted to being hugely influenced by the Nibelungen Opera - which is an old story. Tolkein himself took 99% of his ideas from other sources: the elven languages - of that's the Welsh language or Finnish language; the mythology of the world - ripped from Celtic or Germanic myth; and so on. Yes, there are some places where SRD borrowed from Tolkein, but by far he has original characters and creatures, and an orginal setting. That says more than anything. Besides, I think the second series stands as one of the most original pieces of fantasy around; gone are the massive armies and deadly creatures - instead we have a Sun corrupting the Land and a quest more in the likes of Greek epics.
Waddley wrote:your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
Well if the books were turned into an hourly TV show (no deviations from the truism of the books themselves) for cable (not for youngsters) this would solve the solution of TIME. I don't think it has to be Sci/Fi channel - just one of the stations available to the masses...dlbpharmd wrote:This is one of the major reasons why I think the movie should be made for Sci-Fi channel and NOT the big screen. If it's made for a specific audience, most of which will be familiar with SRD, then those arguments will die away.
<like me!>
Did anyone like "Earth 2" (1994) [TV-Series 1994-1995]?
[spoiler]"...the loveliness of the Land has only grown more precious to me as my senses have been
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
Kimbierlee wrote:Perfect! That's exactly how it should be done, Matrixman. wOOt!
Thanks for your words of support, Kymbierlee. The budding screenwriter in me is giving me delusions of grandeur... 
Well, I haven't read LOTR (yet), but I enjoyed the films and I've read enough about Middle-earth to appreciate the scope of what Tolkien accomplished. I think I should be able to enjoy both Tolkien and Donaldson. They've created very different worlds, providing very different experiences.Personally, I don't think JRRT can hold a candle to SRD- I never did. Let's hope that enough hype goes along with the making of the movie(s) that it will encourage people to go out and read the books even before they see the film.
I agree, the best remedy to combat anti-Covenant protests from over-zealous Tolkien worshippers (what, will we see them picketing at theatres where the Chronicles movie is playing?) is for open-minded people to read the books and decide for themselves. So I want to be fair, too, and read LOTR to see for myself what all the fuss is about.
I was really excited when we started receiving the Sci Fi channel a couple years ago (our cable system must have been one of the last), and for the most part I've been really disappointed in it. The amount of commercials is worse than even peak time sitcoms, and there are only about 5 commercials that get recycled over and over.I don't think it has to be Sci/Fi channel - just one of the stations available to the masses...
If you did it on cable (which I believe would be the better way to go in order to do a proper job), at least create the series for HBO or a similar movie channel.
Tom
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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wayfriend
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By the way,
I think it might be a good idea if we started collecting movie news in a single location. A single place where everyone could go to get updates, and a single place for anyone who has any news to (via a moderator) have it posted. Most definitely not a discussion thread.
Is it possible to create one of these on Kevin's Watch?
As it happens, I've collected together and sorted all the movie news I could find so far. But I have no means of posting it.
I have the inclination, but not the means, as it were.
I think it might be a good idea if we started collecting movie news in a single location. A single place where everyone could go to get updates, and a single place for anyone who has any news to (via a moderator) have it posted. Most definitely not a discussion thread.
Is it possible to create one of these on Kevin's Watch?
As it happens, I've collected together and sorted all the movie news I could find so far. But I have no means of posting it.
I have the inclination, but not the means, as it were.
.
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Alynna Lis Eachann
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Jay and I are, in fact, toying around with a movie forum at the moment. I like your suggestion, Wayfriend. It would keep the actual news and the speculation distinctly separate. So far, all we have come up with is pointing people to SRD's site - he himself has stated that for the time being, www.stephenrdonaldson.com is the only TC movie news source anyone should trust (think of the now-infamous "Saturn" mess). We are looking into different options, and hopefully we'll be able to offer some results soon.
"We probably could have saved ourselves, but we were too damned lazy to try very hard... and too damn cheap." - Kurt Vonnegut
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
"Now if you remember all great paintings have an element of tragedy to them. Uh, for instance if you remember from last week, the unicorn was stuck on the aircraft carrier and couldn't get off. That was very sad. " - Kids in the Hall
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wayfriend
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I've 'seeded' the news thread with the existing news to date (AFAIK of course). I hope no one minds. Just send me a message and I shall delete it.
But I disagree about the source of news. In the 'official' site, you'll only get 'official' news. You won't get rumors or spy reports or prominent mentionings or scoops or critiques or anything like that. Only a fan site can do what needs to be done: keep everyone up to date on every piece of junk that floats by, for better or worse, out of pure blind lunatic devotion.
But I disagree about the source of news. In the 'official' site, you'll only get 'official' news. You won't get rumors or spy reports or prominent mentionings or scoops or critiques or anything like that. Only a fan site can do what needs to be done: keep everyone up to date on every piece of junk that floats by, for better or worse, out of pure blind lunatic devotion.
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