Who is the invader of Anele with the fire?

[CovenantJr]

anyone who thinks she whines, go back to the 1st chrons and listen to TC for a bit

I have done so. But I understand and relate to TC, whereas Linden is just an insipid, whiney baby. Bloody Linden

You're kidding? Maybe she whines a lot in the 2nd Chrons, but she eventually overcomes her demons (see my post in another thread for more details on my thoughts on this subject) and transcends her own self-imposed limitations. She is no longer the product of her parents' self despite, she is truly Linden Avery, Chosen and Sun-Sage. She is violated by a Raver yet even after all the horror it instils into her soul, she allows herself to be violated once again by the Sunbane in order that she can use the newly forged Staff of Law to heal the Land. By the end of WGW, she has become more than she was, she has risen above the level of a "whiny baby" and become almost as powerful as Covenant, and less destructive.

I just can't stand her. You can try to convince me all you like, but it's not a rational thing. She's just really, really irritating to me. I see her necessity to the narrative, but that doesn't mean I have to like her. I haven't read so much as a sentence featuring Linden that hasn't grated, and that's no exaggeration.

[burgs]

Very well said, Satansheart. Of course, I agree with every word. You've summed her character up much better than I did.

This is why I just don't understand the Linden bashing, though I'm becoming more and more convinced that it's typical fantasy misogyny.

[Satansheart Soulcrusher]

Looking at CovJr's last post, I'd be inclined to agree with you there, burgs.

[CovenantJr]

You can think me misogynistic if you like, you don't know me.

[ur-bane]

Is it possible that these anti-Linden feelings are borne of the fact that we are no longer experiencing the story through the adventures of TC? That in fact, dislike of Linden is actually disappointment in the fact that TC is who we wanted to be the hero every time, all the time? That in our minds she is stepping on his toes, doing the things that he no longer can? Saving the Land.....Thomas Covenant's Land.

I remember the first time I read TIW. When I found out that Hile Troy was from Covenant's "real" world, I was shocked and bitter. For me, the Land was Covenant's, and no one else had the right to be there from outside.
Those feelings have since changed for me, but perhaps Linden as savior, rather than TC, is what is really bothering people. Man vs. Woman has nothing to do with it.

Just my thoughts.

[Sweet Brutha Numpsay]

By stepping on her toes, she may be stepping on ours. I see the logic.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Actually I liked Linden much more, prior to runes. I still enjoy her, but I like main characters with severe internal struggles, more guilt, the kind of fiery vehemence and self doubt that Thomas had, prior to the venom burning out of his system and his placement in the arch (I imagine).
But I'm sure I'll be impressed by her eventually.

I don't think its sexism.

[Satansheart Soulcrusher]

Actually I liked Linden much more, prior to runes. I still enjoy her, but I like main characters with severe internal struggles, more guilt, the kind of fiery vehemence and self doubt that Thomas had, prior to the venom burning out of his system and his placement in the arch (I imagine).
But I'm sure I'll be impressed by her eventually.

I don't think its sexism.

I'm already impressed by Linden. She's gone through all the things you mentioned above, and come out of it stronger. Now she faces a fresh set of challenges and I'll be interested to see how she fares.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Yeah, I'm very interested in her future too. The main characters in the books always make huge catastrophic mistakes at one point or another. I'll probably like her more after that

[I'm Murrin]

I made a very big assumption the first time the fiery spirit appeared. My mind shouted 'Kastenessen'. He was used to stop the fiery Skurj in the north - trapped there for far more than ten thousand years. To me it seemed possible that he could have taken on some of the nature of these Skurj over this time period.
Also, consider this: In the Verge of Wandering, Linden percieves that Esmer serves the being which invaded Anele's mind. Esmer states himself that the Elohim part of him serves his grandsire Kastenessen utterly.

[Dr. Tewari]

Actually I couldn't stand Linden in the first 3 books of the 2nd chronicles, especially the last two. I really enjoyed her in Runes. I think the fire being that possesses Anele is Roger Covenant.

[MrKABC]

I'm inclined to think it's Kastenessen, or some revenant of him.

Interesting that a small tale told by Findail could turn in to a new threat in the new series. I wonder why Kastenessen would be the only Appointed to reappear though - what made him special (able to reappear) when Findail and the Elohim that became the Colossus of the Fall were completely doomed?

[lurch]

...Yes, Kastenessen or an Elohim, possesed by a raver. The mystery set up by Donaldson I enjoy.
..Perhaps,,it is the frustration,,that the character Avery builds inside all of the readers..the , " c'mon girl get ur self together!!" plea that got stronger and higher pitched after each failing, is what some had difficulty dealing with. Basically its the same template TC was subjected to by the Rhiter of The Wurd,,but just a different character in place, as pointed out.
...Much like TC in 2nd Chron's,,LA is the one head strong and now calls the shots( ie..experienced)..so who or what is the " whiney" roll in the Last Chrons?..why its all the supporting cast. They are all in denial. They are who and or what must change. Talk about doing stuff for all the wrong reasons. I think SRD has done a excellent job of getting the reader to feel her frustrations with the rest of the folks of the Land.
...And who is presiding over the Arch of Time? It portends darkly( as SRD is so adept at)..the opening line.. No Mr. Convenant, I can't do that...MEL

[Tom]

I can understand Thomas Convenant's "block" that causes him to not reach the power of white gold when he needs to.

But what is the issue with Linden? What kind of mental problem is she supposed to have that causes her to keep failing to reach to power of white gold?

Also, with the ending (spoiler coming)

Spoiler

the way it is, do you think Linden will give the ring back to Thomas in the sequel to Runes?

Tom

[dlbpharmd]

Part of the reason was Esmer's inhibitory effect on the white gold, but that doesn't come near to explaining her reluctance to use power in Runes. In WGW, she was practically begging for the ring.

[lurch]

...It seems to me that ..The Staff of Law,,is LA's designated and perferred intstrument of effecting change,,not the White Gold. She is a Healer. Therefore, she does attempt to persuade the situation, whatever it is,,with the Staff first. The White Gold and The Staff are actually opposites. The Staff of Law versus the Wild White Gold Magic( outside of Law). She has them both,,but preferers the Staff, because she is a healer. This the main underling element of the plot and theme. Again, somewhere inbetween the two extremes, will she find resolution to her conflict. ...Perfection of either extreme is not where its at..Its in our personal search of our mid ground that we find the answers....oh oh...starting to make even myself sick.......MEL

[Tom]

I think the fact that LA is a healer is closer to the logical explanation. I never bought off too much on the Esmer thing since he wasn't around ALL the time.

So who thinks LA will turn over the ring to TC? I'm bettin' that she offers the ring but he refuses and she's stuck with it.

Tom

[variol son]

But Linden only had trouble accessing the wild magic a couple of times, and Esmer was always in the general vicinity at those times.

And remember, Linden practically created the Staff of Law. So surely she would be more comfortable with using something that she made and therefore understands better.

As for the ring, that all depends on whether this is actually Covenant.

Sum sui generis
Vs

[Tom]

As for the ring, that all depends on whether this is actually Covenant.

Well, since this series is the Final Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, I'll puttin' my white gold dollars on TC. I would like to see him in the story somehow anyway, even if he is just a spectre floating around with LA.

I'm thinking that the arch of time preserved him, and he can be alive in the Land still. Pull out your trekker lore.... remember that episode where Scotty guest starred on Next Generation by preserving himself in the endless transporter loop? LOL

Maybe in the last book of the Final Chronicles, Thomas even makes a return to our own reality. It's either that, or Linden, Jeremiah and Thomas stay in the Land and live happily ever after.

Tom

[variol son]

Oh, it's him in the fact that it looks like him and will probably act like him, at least on the surface.

However, he keeps saying to Linden, "remember that I'm dead". That and The Mahdoubt's warning against love, and the Elohim's warning against the half-hand, make me wonder whether it is actually the Covenant we all know and...well...tolerate at least.

PS - That is one of my favourite TNG episodes Tom.

Sum sui generis
Vs