It's been two months since I've read it, and I don't plan on rereading it any time soon (too many other books to read!) but didn't Esmer exhibit control over a caesure? And the Demondim?
And didn't wild magic have more than a little to do with controlling the caesure?
Significance of the toy car?
Moderator: dlbpharmd
So far, not much that I can see directly. Haven't got far yet, but theres this:burgs66 wrote:
My questions would be: how would a red car have anything to do with Covenant?
Which, considering, might give a little extra weight to Lytton's:While he had been in treatment, his wife, Joan, had divorced him -- taken their infant son and moved out of the state. The only thing in which he, Thomas Covenant, had a stake that she dared handle had been the car; she had taken it as well.
Joan went insane in the back of his car. She was able to take TC's car, even as squicked over the leprosy as she was, but Lytton wouldn't let her in the front for the same reason, and she went bonkers.I made her ride in the back because I didn't want to be infected.
TC was also first summoned to the land after being hit by a car. (And Linden this time for 'hitting a car")
Hopefully we'll know more in, say, three years.
In order to have creation, you also must allow destruction, for it is the destruction of one thing that allows another to be created to take its place. And if Jeremiah is chaos and Linden, order, they certainly are destined be be linked because one without the other is like a day without sunshine.
So, where am I going with this? Creation/Destruction, Law/Chaos. Sounds alot like our buddy Esmer with his dual nature. We also are led to believe that there is a finite duration to The Land, that there is an end to time. This however a bad bad thing because it is this event that allows Foul to escape and wreak his heavenly havok.
So, we need a loophole....pun intended. We need a creation at the same time as the destruction, we need time to end and start at the same instant. Chaos to deal with all the infinite possibilities and order to give it an anchor, a place to start. And we need something that can link these wildly opposing things together. Someone who's very nature is to be the thing and its opposite at the same time. And as we close the cover of the final book we are nodding in satisfaction over the creation of a nice little Sandgorgons Doom of time, just for Foul.
So, where am I going with this? Creation/Destruction, Law/Chaos. Sounds alot like our buddy Esmer with his dual nature. We also are led to believe that there is a finite duration to The Land, that there is an end to time. This however a bad bad thing because it is this event that allows Foul to escape and wreak his heavenly havok.
So, we need a loophole....pun intended. We need a creation at the same time as the destruction, we need time to end and start at the same instant. Chaos to deal with all the infinite possibilities and order to give it an anchor, a place to start. And we need something that can link these wildly opposing things together. Someone who's very nature is to be the thing and its opposite at the same time. And as we close the cover of the final book we are nodding in satisfaction over the creation of a nice little Sandgorgons Doom of time, just for Foul.
Re: what if there's only one caesure?
What if there's only one caesure and Linden Avery was the one who made it?cpurvis wrote: This is a quick thought, and I've only read the book once (about a month ago), but what if there's only one caesure? since it's be-bopping through time and space, it might only take one, right?
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drew
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I just through of something regarding the car.
It meant so much to Linden when she saw J with it, it would probebly mean that much again.
Here's wHat I mean:
J is obviously okay now..mentally, so he's like someone Linden has never met. I think that during some confrontaiton..a big one now like with the Despiser, J might be threatened, and Linden will not know what to do, but then she'll see the car again, and she'll snap out of her depair.
..just a thought
It meant so much to Linden when she saw J with it, it would probebly mean that much again.
Here's wHat I mean:
J is obviously okay now..mentally, so he's like someone Linden has never met. I think that during some confrontaiton..a big one now like with the Despiser, J might be threatened, and Linden will not know what to do, but then she'll see the car again, and she'll snap out of her depair.
..just a thought
Last edited by drew on Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
Is burgs66 actually the most arrogant [deleted] on this entire forum?
<quote>This has actually been discussed before. And all those who did, myself included, were fairly well convinced that the car represented a caesure, and that the race track resembled the Arch of Time.
The only question remains: why red?</quote>
every time I read your replies I get angry. Stop confusing your own "opinion" with "correct fact"
<quote>This has actually been discussed before. And all those who did, myself included, were fairly well convinced that the car represented a caesure, and that the race track resembled the Arch of Time.
The only question remains: why red?</quote>
every time I read your replies I get angry. Stop confusing your own "opinion" with "correct fact"
More "car" goodness, (maybe I already mentioned it, though):
Joan leaves TC, and takes the car, even though she is scared of infection
-vs-
Linden is still driving the same old beat-up car from 2nd Chrionichles because it "had carried her to her first encounters with Thomas Covenant."
Their reward:
Joan goes insane in the back of Lytton's car when he reminds her of herself.
-vs-
Linden cuts her hand punching the dashboard of the same car that 'carried' her to TC, resulting in the blood on her hand which "carries" her BACK to TC this time.
Joan leaves TC, and takes the car, even though she is scared of infection
-vs-
Linden is still driving the same old beat-up car from 2nd Chrionichles because it "had carried her to her first encounters with Thomas Covenant."
Their reward:
Joan goes insane in the back of Lytton's car when he reminds her of herself.
-vs-
Linden cuts her hand punching the dashboard of the same car that 'carried' her to TC, resulting in the blood on her hand which "carries" her BACK to TC this time.
My head hurts!!!Stead wrote:More "car" goodness, (maybe I already mentioned it, though):
Joan leaves TC, and takes the car, even though she is scared of infection
-vs-
Linden is still driving the same old beat-up car from 2nd Chrionichles because it "had carried her to her first encounters with Thomas Covenant."
Their reward:
Joan goes insane in the back of Lytton's car when he reminds her of herself.
-vs-
Linden cuts her hand punching the dashboard of the same car that 'carried' her to TC, resulting in the blood on her hand which "carries" her BACK to TC this time.
He/She who dies with the most toys wins! Wait a minute ... I can't die!!!
I would call that deep posting, and yes good as well.
In LFB, the moon turned red which was a sign of evil or corruption or Earth Power.
Couldn't the red car be picked because Jeremiah wanted to let Linden know evil was there?
In LFB, the moon turned red which was a sign of evil or corruption or Earth Power.
Couldn't the red car be picked because Jeremiah wanted to let Linden know evil was there?
[spoiler]"...the loveliness of the Land has only grown more precious to me as my senses have been
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
I love reading all of your thoughts on this. I'm sitting here saying 'yeah!' 'exactly!' 'ooo, no!' lol!
My opinion is that the car doesn't represent a caesure if only for the fact that THAT car came with the racetrack and therefore does traverse it smoothly. It belongs with the arch. Perhaps it represents something- that we haven't seen yet- that will be necessary to hold the arch of time together. Perhaps only Jeremiah will have the ability to preserve the arch. Maybe that's why Foul wants him, to prevent that. But then that begs the question of why/how is he with TC at the end?? Are they who they seem to be?? Probably not.
Beware the halfhand...but which one???
Of course, the fun of it is in the specualting! Let's not think that we can know what SRD has come up with or assume that any of our ideas are the 'right' ones. I just want to enjoy thinking of and reading all of your possibilities and then finally finding out whether anyone actually figured it out!
Just wish we could know sooner.
LK
My opinion is that the car doesn't represent a caesure if only for the fact that THAT car came with the racetrack and therefore does traverse it smoothly. It belongs with the arch. Perhaps it represents something- that we haven't seen yet- that will be necessary to hold the arch of time together. Perhaps only Jeremiah will have the ability to preserve the arch. Maybe that's why Foul wants him, to prevent that. But then that begs the question of why/how is he with TC at the end?? Are they who they seem to be?? Probably not.
Beware the halfhand...but which one???
Of course, the fun of it is in the specualting! Let's not think that we can know what SRD has come up with or assume that any of our ideas are the 'right' ones. I just want to enjoy thinking of and reading all of your possibilities and then finally finding out whether anyone actually figured it out!
Just wish we could know sooner.LK
"Go then, there are other worlds than these."
even MORE car goodness:
From a website I found the other day on Jung's archetypical models, it seems that the car could be the final vehicle or 'chariot' to personality consolidation.
From a website I found the other day on Jung's archetypical models, it seems that the car could be the final vehicle or 'chariot' to personality consolidation.
The Self
The ultimate pattern is the Self. For Jung this is the God image. Human self and divine self are incapable of distinction. All is Spirit. Images of Spirit abound. Wind and breath being two very common ones. The Spirit descends as a Dove upon Jesus in the wilderness. The voice declares to him his true nature: "Your are my Son, my Beloved." This is an archetypal drama of the Self. Galahad achieving the Grail and ascending with it to Heaven is likewise an archetypal drama of Self. Lancelot's failure to achieve the Grail speaks of his failure to achieve the final discovery of Self. Chariots and cars point in this direction. Remember the death car which comes in Darby O'Gill and the Little People? Enoch is taken up in a chariot of fire. Ezekiel Chapter One describes the chariot conveying God into the world.
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Sunbaneglasses
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anouther one of my kooky theories
I am pretty sure that Jeremiahs mental essence has been in the land since the time of the second crons with a part of him,the part that allows physical manifestation still in Linden's reality.I also believe that one reason that the Creator did not appear to Linden this time is because the ultimate hope in his his creations salvation lies with Jeremiah.As we have been led to believe the Earth/time will be destroyed.By Jeremiahs talents I believe he may be the one to ultimately reconstruct it.And the car?no idea.
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drew
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I get all of the racetrack/arch and car/time travel conections...but why doesn't anyone want to even look at my theroy, that Jeramiah taking the car, was a sign to Linden, a sign that he was okay...and I think, a sign if he's the REAL Jeramiah or not. I'm sure Foul could manufacture some comfy Horsy Jammies, but the car...that's where we'll find out if it was the real Jeramiah at the end.
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
Good minds...
....................Think a like:
As the red car is very unland like....
....................Think a like:
Wayfriend wrote:Did anyone consider that it might be as simple as this? That at one point, Linden will recognize or reject a seeming Jeremiah by the presence or absense of of a red racing car?
drew wrote:I get all of the racetrack/arch and car/time travel conections...but why doesn't anyone want to even look at my theroy, that Jeramiah taking the car, was a sign to Linden, a sign that he was okay...and I think, a sign if he's the REAL Jeramiah or not. I'm sure Foul could manufacture some comfy Horsy Jammies, but the car...that's where we'll find out if it was the real Jeramiah at the end.
As the red car is very unland like....
[spoiler]"...the loveliness of the Land has only grown more precious to me as my senses have been
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
opened...To turn homeward now would be to pass from treasure-berries to dust."
-- Liand to Linden [P324 Runes][/spoiler]
I'm not trying to put your theory down or anything. I was just going off in a different direction.
I can see something like that happening, but I would think that SRD would have placed it differently in the beginning.
Like: instead of a car he never showed any interest in, it would be a toy he and Linden had shared sentimental memories with, something he would cling to like a security blanket.
If it had been one of the lego pieces I would be more convinced, but the car keeps saying something else to me. I'm sure it will have a literal part to play somewhere. I just hope it doesn't happen in chapter one of Fatal Rev.
The car has to wait until the end of the whole series I think, before we'll know what SRD plans for it.
I can see something like that happening, but I would think that SRD would have placed it differently in the beginning.
Like: instead of a car he never showed any interest in, it would be a toy he and Linden had shared sentimental memories with, something he would cling to like a security blanket.
If it had been one of the lego pieces I would be more convinced, but the car keeps saying something else to me. I'm sure it will have a literal part to play somewhere. I just hope it doesn't happen in chapter one of Fatal Rev.
The car has to wait until the end of the whole series I think, before we'll know what SRD plans for it.