Just what can Foul do?

[Sunbaneglasses]

Does Foul have any magical or supernatural powers except for apparent immortality?I may be wrong but I can't remember one single instance of Foul shooting lasers out of his eyes,hurling flames from his hands etc.Seriously Foul has only used agents and tapped into other powers(illearth stone-Drool weilding the staff of law,Ravers,etc).I realize I am being litteral,and Fouls lack of power is symbolic and could stand for so many things on so many levels.He must have some charisma to fool the old Lords and convince his hordes to do his bidding?but I have not seen it,all I have seen is he has a swagger,albeit a blind kind of ignorant swagger,so sure of hisself only to have his plans ruined.The Ur-viles must have realized he's just a blowhard jackass.No point to this really I was just wanting some input on Fouls apparent lack of power.

[Worm of Despite]

*shrugs* No idea.

[kevinswatch]

^ Hahaha.

Heck, if Foul himself doesn't know, who the heck does.-jay

[CovenantJr]

Didn't someone ask this in the Gradual Interview, to which SRD responded something along the lines of "the withering power of pure scorn"? In any case, he seems to be able to conjure/become mist and manifest himself in fires, if that counts.

[dlbpharmd]

Here's the answer CJr is thinking of:

I don't want to answer this question, mainly because I don't want to limit my options. But have you noticed that Lord Foul works primarily through proxies and instruments? (Drool, the Illearth Stone, Ravers, the Clave, the Banefire, etc..) And that the Creator does essentially the same thing? (Thomas Covenant, white gold, Linden Avery, etc..)

However you look at it, in these books "power" tends to be an expression of the essential nature of the person or being whose power it is. On those occasions when we've seen Foul act directly, he seems to exert the withering force of pure scorn. imho, that's pretty intense. And it has interesting implications for the Creator. Not to mention for "The Last Chronicles."

[CovenantJr]

Thanks, Dibble

[dlbpharmd]

You're quite welcome, Cee-jer.

Hey! That's sounds like ceasure!

[drew]

I'd say Foul has done some things. He created the sun-bane for one. He built Foul's Creche, to which TC comented on in TPTP that there was old magic at work.

[I'm Murrin]

So... what is the antithesis of scorn?

[Sunbaneglasses]

As I understand it The Sunbane was a corruption of earthpower,yet anouther example of Foul mearly manipulating anouther source of power.Also we don't really know a history of Fouls Creche?Whats to say Foul didn't contract it out to a Cavewight excavation company?Just kidding about that last bit but???????????

[ur-James]

I've always thought that Foul's "power" was manipulating other people (or other powers, like Earthpower) to do his bidding. And I think that's because he can't do anything directly to the Land, much like he can't do anything directly against the Arch Of Time. Neither can the Creator, not without risking breaking the Arch. So I think that Foul does have power, just not the kind we're familiar with. He influences, causes despair in people and let's nature take it's course.

The Ravers are of course a different thing altogether, as they do attack directly (i.e. The Illearth War), but Foul himself can do nothing more than suggest and influence people and other power to attain his ends. With words whispered here and there, he can accomplish his ends without any direct force. And that kind of power is infinitely more frightening than any kind of eye laser, IMO.

James

[MrKABC]

Hmmmm.... never even thought of that until the point was brought up.

Lord Foul did use the Illearth Stone directly, warping the creatures to make his armies in the first Chronicles. He also used the Stone to attack Covenant in the final contest of TPTP...

Foamfollower noted that behind the penumbra, Foul was a power equal to the Illearth Stone in malice, just not as specific. Linden Avery noted that Foul "radiated power like a shriek" and was "hideously stronger than any Raver."

He never really used much of his internal power I guess.. he was too busy calling Covenant "groveler" and standing around waiting for Covenant to show up in front of him... "the fruition of his malign dreams"

[amanibhavam]

I am quite sure Fould was/is capable of many things. After all, he was the one who marred the whole creation of the Earth, putting banes all over the place etc. so that the Creator had to call it a day and seal the thing with the AoT?

[wayfriend]

Hey, guys! Let's not forget he had an uncanny ability at forseeing the future. (Except he never seems to see the part where he loses ...)

In Donaldson's world, power is power is power. There're limits imposed by the way it is expressed, and how much one has. But there're aren't categories. If you have power, you can do almost anything.

Lord Foul:

Created the jeherrin
Warped millions of humans to create an army
Weaved adamite body armor about himself.
He turned the moon green.
He extended the winter unnaturally.

The Illearth Stone is a means of articulation of power. You have to have some to use it. And Foul was not corrupted by the Illearth Stone like the weaker Drool was.

He taught the Demondim and the Viles and the ur-viles all that they know. We can assume that he can do as well as teach on this one.

He came back from being a toast crumb three times that we know of.

He warped Earthpower.
He created a moral poison for Covenant.
He tainted the Elohim.
He tamed the Arguleh.

Those Ravers don't obey him because he's full of ideas.

He's immune to the Power of Command.

He created all the banes of the Earth, the Illearth Stone, croyel, Ravers, etc. Behind the Creators back, even.

What's confusing about Lord Foul is that he has such disdain for his co-occupants of the Earth, and he is so secure in himself, that he doesn't waste time merely *showing* his power. We're used to bad guys who want to advertise their power, show everyone whose da man, and get seen being evil about town. Not Foul.

[Myste]

So... what is the antithesis of scorn?

Compassion?

Appreciation?

[CovenantJr]

Just a few details I need to pick up, following from SRD's comment about Foul acting through tools and proxies.

Lord Foul:

Created the jeherrin

Can't dispute that - though how long had they been around? Could he perhaps have used the Illearth Stone for this?

Warped millions of humans to create an army

Definitely used the Stone here.

Weaved adamite body armor about himself.

I don't remember this, but since there was no battle at the end of WGW, I assume you're talking about TPTP, in which case it was the Stone again.

He turned the moon green.

Red. And Drool did that. Using the Staff of Law (both proxy and instrument there).

He extended the winter unnaturally.

I could be mistaken, but I believe this was Elena with the Staff.


I don't dispute any of the other examples, and I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of his subtlety in comparison to other evil types.

[I'm Murrin]

CovJr, go read Covenant's first chapter on KW in tPtP - Foul did, indeed, turn the moon green.

Anyway, everything Foul has done has given us at least one certainty about his abilities - he is very adept at use of lore.

[CovenantJr]

I have no recollection whatsoever a green moon. I stand corrected. But still - at that point, Foul had the Illearth Stone, and since green is the Illearth colour...

[I'm Murrin]

The moon turned green on the day of Covenant's summoning to the Land, and a gap in Foul's winter clouds allowed the army besieging Revelstone to see it, signaling the assault. Covenant himself also saw it, when the gap in the clouds passed over KW.

And yes, it was the Illearth Stone. But Foul must have known quite a bit of lore to use the Stone so masterfully. And how else could he have safely removed three pieces of the Stone for his Giant-ravers, if he was not lore-powerful. Remember that to become a Lord he must also have shown himself a master of both Sword and Staff (although back in Kevin's day the two areas were not seperated as they are at the Loresraat).

[amanibhavam]

Was in not Foul who had created the Stone and planted it in the Earth in the first place?