Another problem that needs to be adressed if a movie is made is the age old Fantasy problem . . . . . you know . . . like only boys like Science Fiction/Fantasy . . so as far as revenue is concerned the Chronicles may instantly only appeal to the male population, and thus revenue is halved before it has already begun?
I was suprised that the LOTR was so sucessful being fantasy . . . . . but then there was a good deal of concentration between the love affair of Aragorn and whats her face .....?????? ....... i guess to try a pull in the girlies . . . . . . i am generalising massively here of course so don't tear my heart out those female TC fans?!?!?!?!?!?
I reckon this needs careful thought on the script writers part, and will be key to the films sucess.
A Request to the Script Writers & Producers...
Moderators: Orlion, kevinswatch
As far as titles of the movies are concerned i like the idea of an overall title of 'The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever' with a secondary title as per each book . . . very LOTR i know . . but i don't think the films should be named anything different than the books . . . . . i do however think that SRD should have the final decision on this . . . and be as involved as much as possible along the way to avoid becoming too estranged from the original books.
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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Ah ... yes ... sorry ... its just that i click the post reply button, type away, then hit 'submit' and then think of something else to say!!! Errrrr . . . is it practise to just edit and re-edit each post accordingly then? Also ....... do people mind having to trawl through a single post that spans more than a full screen scroll down?
sorry ... newbies ....... beg forgiveness ..........
sorry ... newbies ....... beg forgiveness ..........
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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Oh yeah, no problem at all. The get it ? ? ? was kind of an inside board joke, didn't have anything to do with you. I'm so guilty of double posting that I probably just want to take it out on an innocent.
Oh no, please, post as long as you want to. Over in the Think Tank, the political forum on here, some people post whole speeches.
Oh no, please, post as long as you want to. Over in the Think Tank, the political forum on here, some people post whole speeches.
Start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can.
use what you have,
do what you can.
khab, good point about main character having only 2 fingers. Never thought about that, that would be a pain to have to worry about in just about every scene. And good point about love story b/w Aragorn and Arwyn, which alot of LOTR fans didn't like, but its there to draw the females in. You have to justify spending millions, and only being able to appeal to half population won't cut it. Course, wound up alot of women just loved Aragorn and Legolas and didn't need Arwyn around anyway 
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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Yes . . . lena and Covenant through Elena etc etc etc is MIGHTY significant, and of course crucial to the entire Chronicles . . so many many hidden repercussions. Hmmmmmm . . . its all a bit insestuous later on though? I wonder if there is any concievable way of trying to bend the truth here and make their love affair true love, or something? Or unrequited love ....?
I will get my guts ripped out here by all us purists ??!?!?!?
HA!!!
Alas the brutality of their relationship is key to so many issues within the books that it just would not make sense to skirt around or change this?
I will get my guts ripped out here by all us purists ??!?!?!?
HA!!!
Alas the brutality of their relationship is key to so many issues within the books that it just would not make sense to skirt around or change this?
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wayfriend
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I don't think it was the romance that got the girls in LOTR ... it was pretty much the preety boys.
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Do not underestimate the extreme and overwhelming power of the PG-13 rating. With one exception, nothing NC-17 or higher ever reached blockbuster status. There are no merchanise deals and comercial tie-ins if it's not PG-13 or less. This all equals money, money, money. If no one sees the money, no one sinks the money.
And you can't have a PG-13 movie with a rape. (Can you? Any examples?)
It'll come down to money vs rape in the end, mark my words.
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Do not underestimate the extreme and overwhelming power of the PG-13 rating. With one exception, nothing NC-17 or higher ever reached blockbuster status. There are no merchanise deals and comercial tie-ins if it's not PG-13 or less. This all equals money, money, money. If no one sees the money, no one sinks the money.
And you can't have a PG-13 movie with a rape. (Can you? Any examples?)
It'll come down to money vs rape in the end, mark my words.
.
I don't think they can expect to do TCTC as PG-13, no matter how badly any prospective studio might want to. They could pull it off with LOTR because even the original has a happy ending--there's no bad language, and the whole thing is cast in such a high heroic fairy-tale mode that it suits itself to that level.
TCTC is darker, deeper, and a lot less heroic. I think they could get an R--we don't actually need to see the rape, we just need to know it happened so that the consequences make sense.
And if it comes to money...I think if a studio is courageous enough to take on the film, they'll do their best to avoid alienating their fan base. I mean, you've got millions of readers, hundreds of thousands of fans, just waiting for this thing--if you're a studio, you're counting on those people to come see the movie (hopefully multiple times), and then to spread the word. If the fans of the books hate it, you've squandered a huge part of your market base. And that's just plain stupid.
That's not to say they won't try to keep it PG-13. Maybe they'll find a way to do the rape without an R. But I think the money argument works both ways.
TCTC is darker, deeper, and a lot less heroic. I think they could get an R--we don't actually need to see the rape, we just need to know it happened so that the consequences make sense.
And if it comes to money...I think if a studio is courageous enough to take on the film, they'll do their best to avoid alienating their fan base. I mean, you've got millions of readers, hundreds of thousands of fans, just waiting for this thing--if you're a studio, you're counting on those people to come see the movie (hopefully multiple times), and then to spread the word. If the fans of the books hate it, you've squandered a huge part of your market base. And that's just plain stupid.
That's not to say they won't try to keep it PG-13. Maybe they'll find a way to do the rape without an R. But I think the money argument works both ways.
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
I don't see any reason why the rape and PG-13 can't co-exist. I mean, obviously it can't be shown graphically, but nobody wants to see that anyway.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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[Syl]
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They can co-exist, so long as they do what I've always suggested, which is never show the rape on camera. Especially considering the word "rape" is never spoken by the characters.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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amanibhavam
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I'm quite sure TC says it in TIW.
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love is the shadow that ripens the wine
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Its easy to to convey a rape without actually seeing the act . . . . . i think that films these days, and even TV programmes for that matter find it all to easy to go for the graphic shock factor of actually seeing all the gore, when really all that is needed is to convey the message in other ways.
Indeed maybe it is not necessary to be clear in the beggining of the film that a rape actually happened . . was it rape . . or consent . . or what . . . keep people guessing . . and this is a thread throughout the rest of the Chronicles. Covenants remorse . . . . Lena's love . . . Trell's fury through to despair, Atiarans acceptance etc etc etc .... what really happened in the beginning?
It surprised me that LOTR was a pg12 . . . as many scenes within it were dark and aggressive . . . . . maybe it is possible to follow these lines with TC . . . . as long as it does not constrain the movie too much ......
Indeed maybe it is not necessary to be clear in the beggining of the film that a rape actually happened . . was it rape . . or consent . . or what . . . keep people guessing . . and this is a thread throughout the rest of the Chronicles. Covenants remorse . . . . Lena's love . . . Trell's fury through to despair, Atiarans acceptance etc etc etc .... what really happened in the beginning?
It surprised me that LOTR was a pg12 . . . as many scenes within it were dark and aggressive . . . . . maybe it is possible to follow these lines with TC . . . . as long as it does not constrain the movie too much ......
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Loredoctor
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Possibly, but there have been an awful lot of teenage readers, including those here on the Watch. I think SRD himself (maybe in the GI?) said he doesn't think his books are great teen reading, but that doesn't mean that teens don't read them--and even enjoy them.
But I agree that the film should not be targeted to the teen audience, anymore than the books are. That's what I meant by the darkness and depth of the series in comparison to LOTR. Covenant is a true anti-hero, and it's hard to sympathize with him, especially at first. Change that fact--try to make the character into something he's not--and you change the essential nature of the entire series.
But I agree that the film should not be targeted to the teen audience, anymore than the books are. That's what I meant by the darkness and depth of the series in comparison to LOTR. Covenant is a true anti-hero, and it's hard to sympathize with him, especially at first. Change that fact--try to make the character into something he's not--and you change the essential nature of the entire series.
Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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We don't NEED another LOTR phenomenon, do we? To have a movie worth making, I mean...
Just being clear here... our priorities are for accuracy as opposed to popularity, right?
It'd be great if it was a blockbuster, sure.
But it'd be a lot better if it was accurate. At least, as far as I'm concerned.
If only there was a studio headed by a big TC fan!
Just being clear here... our priorities are for accuracy as opposed to popularity, right?
It'd be great if it was a blockbuster, sure.
But it'd be a lot better if it was accurate. At least, as far as I'm concerned.
If only there was a studio headed by a big TC fan!
Start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can.
use what you have,
do what you can.
trouble is movie making is driven by getting finance . . it takes 100's of millions of dollars to produce stuff like LOTR and many years investment . . . so without popularity there will be no finance . . no finance no movie!!! Investors in the movie will have to be convinced they have a good audience before they will buy into it . . . so i reckon popularity will have to be balanced with accuracy. Its not the studio that you have to convince . . . its the people PAYING the studio. HELL . . if someone wants to give me several hundred million dollars i will set up an animation/VFX studio to do it.
Its a buisness as much and probably more than a labour of love.
There are not many people that can fund themselves to make a movie . . but George Lucas is one of them ......... hence endless Star Wars versions and re versioning ...... and then re re versioning.
Its a buisness as much and probably more than a labour of love.
There are not many people that can fund themselves to make a movie . . but George Lucas is one of them ......... hence endless Star Wars versions and re versioning ...... and then re re versioning.
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wayfriend
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Khabaal sees my point. Thanks, Khabaal. I don't care if it is a blockbuster, as long as I get to see it. But it's mandatory for a special-effects-laden franchise movie that it would be one, or else it won't get made. Especially if they want to consider shooting multiple movies at the same time, like LOTR or Matrix. Coming up with an equation which doesn't include PG-13, which means it doesn't include merchandising to children or drawing teenagers to the box office, is going to be damned difficult.
.
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Kenaustin Ardenol
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All I've got to say is if SRD is going to have any major input into the films, their just going to have to wait, we all no he's got far more important things on his plate for the next nine years. Its bizarre to think I started reading covenant at 15 and won't be finished the whole story till I'm 47. Please let the mayan calender be wrong.