Wow....just wow...

[Encryptic]

Why is it that I didn't discover The Book of the New Sun earlier?

I'm usually not a big fan of sci-fi or sci-fi/fantasy hybrids, but Gene Wolfe earns a big thumbs up from me. I picked up the first 4 books of BotNS from the library about a month ago and just regretfully returned them on Saturday. I can't remember being this impressed by an author's style in a long time, to say the least. Very strange but beautiful at the same time.

I picked up Urth of the New Sun while I was at the library and also got all 4 books of Book of the Long Sun as well, so I'm set for a while.

I know a purchase of Book of the New Sun is in order at some point, though.

[[Syl]]

Cool, Encryptic. Glad to see another Wolfe fan. Be prepared for a rough ride with Long Sun and especially with Short Sun. I still haven't made my way back through them yet. There's a lot of sly references to New Sun in both. Won't seem like it at first, but...

And definately pick yourself up a copy of New Sun. There are so many tiny, hidden, yet important facets of the story... Bah, I could go on and on. Just glad to have you here. Please post any questions or observations while they're still fresh in mind.

Now I just need more people to read the Wizard Knight so I can discuss it while it's still fresh in my head.

[Encryptic]

Cool, Encryptic. Glad to see another Wolfe fan. Be prepared for a rough ride with Long Sun and especially with Short Sun. I still haven't made my way back through them yet. There's a lot of sly references to New Sun in both. Won't seem like it at first, but...

And definately pick yourself up a copy of New Sun. There are so many tiny, hidden, yet important facets of the story... Bah, I could go on and on. Just glad to have you here. Please post any questions or observations while they're still fresh in mind.

Now I just need more people to read the Wizard Knight so I can discuss it while it's still fresh in my head.

Rough ride with Long Sun/Short Sun? You mean they're not that good, or just hard to follow?

I definitely need to read Book of the New Sun again. I just read it, but I want to read it again now. Unfortunately, the library's copies of it are pretty tattered, Sword of the Lictor in particular, which is a good argument to buy my own copies anyway. Maybe I'll hit up Amazon when I get paid this Friday. Of course, then I have to explain to my wife why I'm buying more books when I just bought the Liveship Traders trilogy AND have a stack of other books from the library to read.

So many books....so little time.

I will check out Wizard Knight when I have a chance, though. That sounds very good....

Heh...I just remembered something right now. I never did figure this one out: Early on in Claw of the Conciliator when Severian goes into the mine and encounters the man-apes, they get scared off by something deep within the earth after he uses the Claw and they submit to him. Severian alludes to the fact that he knows what it is (if I recall correctly), but I don't think I remember him mentioning it again later on in the books.

Am I totally missing something here, or was that supposed to be a mystery?

[[Syl]]

Not bad (though I might say progressively less good), but I think all combined, it took me several months to read them (not counting waiting for books and such). If not, it sure seemed like it did. Very dense reading, especially the last two books of Long Sun and the first two books of Short Sun (would recommend reading them Blue, Return to the Whorl, and Green, btw. I think that would've made it a lot easier).

[Encryptic]

Not bad (though I might say progressively less good), but I think all combined, it took me several months to read them (not counting waiting for books and such). If not, it sure seemed like it did. Very dense reading, especially the last two books of Long Sun and the first two books of Short Sun (would recommend reading them Blue, Return to the Whorl, and Green, btw. I think that would've made it a lot easier).

Ahhh....thanks for the clarification.

I just finished Urth of the New Sun last night. I'm probably going to read a couple other books that I got from the library, then start on Long Sun.

[CovenantJr]

I've nearly finished Shadow of the Torturer. At last. So far it's taken me nearly six weeks. Good stuff, but seems quite hard to read. I won't move on to Claw yet - first it's Hyperion...

[Adept Havelock]

Encryptic,


There is a famous phrase in Dune: "Plans within plans within plans".

If applied to Wolfe, that might be the understatement of the century.

I've told numerous friends (though it's kept a few from making the effort) Wolfe tells you 2/3 of a story. The other third is implied and left as an exercise for the reader. Numerous scholarly works have been written on Wolfe's New Sun. I'm the first to admit there are layers I've yet to divine. It doesn't help that like any scholarly subject, there is an extremely overly-healthy amount of disagreement.

What Churchill said about the Soviets; "A Riddle, wrapped in an Mystery, inside an Enigma." also applies to Wolfe.

Regarding your question about Long Sun and Short Sun. There are a huge numbers of ties and allusions the New Sun series. I really enjoyed both, but they are VERY dense, and occasionally, dry. Long Sun holds the distinction for my favorite Wolfe line ever though:

"Laughter filled her as the summery sunshine of a year long past descends gurgling to fill a wineglass."

If you've enjoyed the book of the New sun, remember that Wolfe writes for the Re-reader. Every time, you'll find something new. Try keeping in mind the next time you read the New Sun, it seems that Humans are all given Saint's names, while Aliens (pardon me, musn't be rude, Hierodules) are given names drawn from mythology. It makes certain aspects of the story quite....unusual.

As for what's in the Mine? My guess is an early Talus, put there by the original owner of the Homunculus in the Citadel Laboratory that also held the fabled "Emerald Bench".

What's a Talus? Who's the original owner? Enjoy the Book of the Long Sun. Say hello to Silk for me when you see him.

Good Silk!

[Encryptic]

Cool, thanks for your insights, Adept Havelock. I take it this is one of your more lucid moments?

I did try Book of the Long Sun but sadly I just couldn't get into it for some reason.

I'll give it another go once I've got more time to really sit down and focus on it.

[Adept Havelock]

As lucid as it gets these days.

Long Sun is tough to get into. The plot really doesn't start moving until about 2/3 of the way through the first book. I admit, at first the story of a holy man trying to save his manteion (church) isn't all that compelling after the grand exploits of Severian. Give it another go sometime, and I think you'll be really impressed.

Trying to save his church is just the beginning, comparable to Severian puttering around Nessus at the start of New Sun. Personally, I found Patera Silk a considerably more interesting character than Severian, though in Wolfe's tradition, he also is occasionally unreliable as an observer.

BTW...I just noticed I still owe the Library Severian's family tree in another post. I promise I'll get to it soon, but preparing it will take a little bit to order my thoughts. It's pretty twisted. As I said in the other thread, it looks like Severian is both of his own grandfathers.

[Encryptic]

I've nearly finished Shadow of the Torturer. At last. So far it's taken me nearly six weeks. Good stuff, but seems quite hard to read. I won't move on to Claw yet - first it's Hyperion...

I admit that it took me a second try before I finished the series. I read Shadow of the Torturer and enjoyed it, then I got lost somewhere in the middle of Claw of the Conciliator, so I put it down then picked it up again at a later date and just really took time to absorb it, which helped a lot. Wolfe is worth reading, but you have to have patience with his stuff and not expect it to be a John Grisham novel.

As Adept Havelock has already pointed out, there's a LOT of subtleties in Wolfe's work. I've only read through it once and I know that I'll more than likely get more out of it with another reading.

[CovenantJr]

I can appreciate the value of re-reading. The first time I tried, I didn't even get halfway through Shadow, becsue I found it dry and almost incomprehensible. On the second attempt, I'd already established answers to some of the confusing things from the first time, so I was able to get more out of it.

[Encryptic]

Not bad (though I might say progressively less good), but I think all combined, it took me several months to read them (not counting waiting for books and such). If not, it sure seemed like it did. Very dense reading, especially the last two books of Long Sun and the first two books of Short Sun (would recommend reading them Blue, Return to the Whorl, and Green, btw. I think that would've made it a lot easier).

This is an old thread....

But I figured I'd bump it now that I'm working my way through Long Sun. Definitely have to agree that it's gotten progressively dense, especially now that I'm about halfway through "Calde of the Long Sun". I can tell that I'm going to have to re-read them before it really comes together.