Grass

[wayfriend]

Damn it, she could not remember. But she seemed to recall that he had vacillated between varying manifestations of his insanity, shedding glimpses of Despite and woe. And where they walked had been primarily a kind of scrub-grass, hardy and thin, in­terspersed with patches of bare dirt and sections of fallen stone.

He had been standing on grass of that same kind when Lord Foul had guided her to hurtloam. And earlier, when the Despiser had first spoken to her through Anele: the same grass.

Dear God, was it possible?

He has no friend but stone.

Did the surface on which he stood determine the phase of his madness? Or did that surface control which of several beings or spirits could locate and possess him?

Thomas Covenant had spoken to her through Anele twice, on the lush grass of the Verge of Wandering: grass so rich and high that she had been unable to walk through it without floundering; the same grass which had stained her pants with a script which she did not know how to interpret.

On my second reading of Runes, this passage jumped out at me. I think I see an important clue here (and not the one that this passage speaks directly about). Does anyone else see it?

I don't want to say what it is I am noticing because I want to see if someone else does, too.

[Alynna Lis Eachann]

The grass stains seem heavily emphasized, but I'm not sure if that's a clue or just another expression of Linden's inability to divine the truth of things.

[Baradakas]

Not that the concept is completely new either. In the first Chrons, the patterns left by Morinmoss on Cov's robes were highly emphasized as well, and I think he did something like that in Second Chrons as well, but I cant remember exactly what....

[dlbpharmd]

There was the ash residue on Covenant's hands and forehead after he said goodbye to Caer-Caveral - is that what you're thinking of?

Wayfriend, I haven't figured out this passage yet, so fill me in.

[native]

I'm put in mind that the stones also spoke to Berek and brought forth fire lions on Mount Thunder, and Anele is also a friend of stones at a time when the fire lions appear to have become Skurj.

Maybe Anele can master the Skurj.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Curses, wayfriend, fill us in! :p

[I'm Murrin]

The grass stains are clearly a reference back to the earlier chronicles.
Other things of import in this passage - Covenant only appears in the thickest, richest, most abundant grass they cross; a grass filled with vitality. Could this be significant?
Wild magic is supposedly graven 'in every rock', so perhaps we could expect Covenant to come through the stone, but instead he appears through grass....

[Sheol]

WIld magic is graven into every rock and tree. It is everywhere. Maybe because the grass as so tall it was closer to Anele's mind, Covenant could speak through him then.

[dlbpharmd]

when the fire lions appear to have become Skurj.

I don't think the fire lions and skurj are the same.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Or perhaps the guardians HAD been waging war against the firelions because they were expressions of earth power? heheheh...

[wayfriend]

Okay, thanks for playing. Here's what stood out for me in this passage.

Let's accept that it is true that Anele is affected in a specific way because of the specific surface on which he stands.

And that grass and scrub-grass in particular affect Anele with "Despite and woe" and Lord Foul's possession.

What, then, does it mean that TC also appears in grass?

-----

It may only mean that, upon grass, Anele is open to all sorts of possession.

But there are several other items of information which make that hard to believe. First, I stick on the point that possessor-Covenant doesn't seem to know about dream-Covenant or horse-riding-Covenant. Second, after the Second Chronicles I cannot see that Covenant would possess anyone under any circumstances. Third, if, as Linden suspects, Foul can use Anele at will whenever there is grass underfoot, why would he allow TC to speak to Linden? And lastly, the author has added the additional fact that Anele's general demeanor in grass and scrub is "shedding glimpses of Despite and woe".

So what I am led to conclude is that those times when Covenant spoke through Anele, it either was really the Despiser talking, or it was a Covenant who has been mastered by the Despiser, or it is a fragment of Covenant which the Despiser controls.

And that was what I was wondering if it occurred to anyone else.

Thoughts? Shoot me down, please. I'm rather disturbed by the fact that the "bad Covenant" may be the one that spoke to Linden in the Verge.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Second, after the Second Chronicles I cannot see that Covenant would possess anyone under any circumstances

Wow, interesting that I didn't realize that immediately.

Obviously he would never do that, if everything was going ok. I mean, he'd probably rather die.... err... I guess he can't do that. But I'm with you on this. Why would Foul let that happen? He wouldn't, unless it served him. It fits with everything else, too, the warnings about love and whatnot.

[Jerico]

I've seen this sort of post here before. About TC being split up, or in control by Foul. I just don't buy it. I prefer to think along the lines of TC being the Avatar of the Arch and now he is brought back by someone, maybe even Foul, but I do believe he is really riding up to Revelstone at the end.
Anele is possesed by Foul, TC, and Kassy (or Skurj), and the Earth (stone). He is open to this because of his condition which is self inflicted by his passing through the Caesure.
Foul from scrub grass, TC from lush grass, Kassy from dirt, and the Earth from Stone.

Foul from scrub grass=the lowest form of grass
TC rom lush grass= healthy grass
Kassy from dirt= Skurj food?
Earth= from stone

Now there are not many other things that Anele can stand on to be possesed. He can't stand on water (yet) and what else would there be besides Grass? With so many possesors (sp) SRD had little choice.

Now what I find interesting is that Esmer can control Anele's possesion. He stops TC from talking because the Elohim don't like what he will say, or Kassy wouldn't?
When others take him over he has no control just as when Tc takes him over, but only TC shows remorse. "Poor Anele" he says at one point.
TC is trying to help Linden any way he can.

If anyone should not want to use Anele it's Linden, but she admits she would use him, and does use him. Linden has been possesed. TC has never been possesed. I don't see why it would bother him to use whatever tools were there to get the job done. Just like Linden. They may not like it, and that is a continuing theme in the books.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

They may not like it, and that is a continuing theme in the books.

Actually... I thought that the continuing theme of the book was that possession of any sort was totally horrid. Wasn't that the lesson of the second chronicles?

[Jerico]

Well Linden was possesed and fought it off, so it's not that bad if you can fight back. Like the Giants some are just too strong for the Ravers.
But what I meant was that in the series they are forced into situations where they face their inner most nightmares/desires and have to overcome them. Which they do to some extent. SRD seems to try to validate his creations in the most extreme way possible i.e. the ending of the Earth (Land).
He also has some thing for Rape, murder, and mahem etc... But it's always to the extreme. He says in the GI someplace or and interview that going to the Land is like turning your mind inside out. What I find is that it makes you think, and maybe that's what he's after. I mean look at how many people are here thinking out loud about what he means?

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Well Linden was possesed and fought it off, so it's not that bad if you can fight back. Like the Giants some are just too strong for the Ravers.

I see what you're saying, about how he makes the characters face their demons, but I don't think I would go as far as saying 'it's not that bad if you can fight back'.... just go back and read linden's experience under the possession of a raver.... remember that she learned from covenant that she could not defeat foul through possession... every aspect of possession has been shown to be false...
after all, possession is the tool of the raver.

[Jerico]

I too see what you are saying. Possesion is wrong, but Linden used Anele once and stated that she would do it again if needed. I'm not saying she is right, only that sometimes you have to use whatever you can. Poor Anele hasn't got a chance. He has multiple possesors. I mean all he has to do is look at stone and he 'hears' it's story. That is the Runes of the Earth in a nutshell, but Stone isn't controling him the way others are.

[wayfriend]

What about the question 'How did Covenant become capable of posessing anybody?' This wasn't in his repertoire last time anyone checked.

- - - - - -

Foul from scrub grass, TC from lush grass

Ah, that didn't occur to me, that that would be a distinction. I'll look into it.

[Jerico]

For that matter when did Foul become able to posses anybody?
I think it's Anele who's open to it. The same could be said of any of his possesors?