Somebody needs to invite one or five of those guys, writers, directors, producers (who make all the final decisions next to directors). ... invite those guys to this board so they can at least see how important it is to US the REAL fans of TCTC!
A Request to the Script Writers & Producers...
Moderators: Orlion, kevinswatch
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Seafoam Understone
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Are there ANY of the people involved with pre-production even READING any of this?
Somebody needs to invite one or five of those guys, writers, directors, producers (who make all the final decisions next to directors). ... invite those guys to this board so they can at least see how important it is to US the REAL fans of TCTC!
Somebody needs to invite one or five of those guys, writers, directors, producers (who make all the final decisions next to directors). ... invite those guys to this board so they can at least see how important it is to US the REAL fans of TCTC!
Yes, JohnOrloff has very kindly popped his head up from the Realm of Lurk and given us the lowdown (such as it is) on what's going on.
He also said he'd keep us posted when there was anything worthwhile to note. Nice JohnOrloff...
He also said he'd keep us posted when there was anything worthwhile to note.
Nice JohnOrloff...Halfway down the stairs Is the stair where I sit. There isn't any other stair quite like it. I'm not at the bottom, I'm not at the top; So this is the stair where I always stop.
Re: A Request to the Script Writers & Producers...
If I may be so bold, is it because a lot of good fantasy writing comes from those countries, and producers have casted with respect to the authors in mind.Avytaya wrote: (And can someone please explain to me why every single fantasy movie all characters must have a British, Scottish, Australian or Irish accent?) .......
With LOTR (which i believe you must be refering to), the range of accents reflected Tolkiens vision of Britain as middle earth, and the various people's that were native to it.
Harry Potter, again, is an English story. What else? Cant think of any more. Oh yeah, and a hell of a lot of big budget features are shot in England, hence use of local talent.
With that in mind, Thomas Covenant should quite obviously be American shouldn't he. So who said Hugh Grant! Must be havin' a larf.
But definately agree with all points. No macho man. Must be an everyman actor.
English accents just feel right for fantasy, the only reason I can think of is that, logically, British English has been around longer than American English and that we associate fantasy worlds with the past. Trouble is people in medieval England actually spoke like Yoda (really).
"Touch me, you will not!"
Regarding the mooted movie, I think we need to step back and do two things:
1) Cut these guys some slack. All around this board I see people getting worked up about TCTC getting butchered by Hollywood, when all they have to base this on is their own supposition and one strange (and now confirmed inaccurate) press release. All we know for sure is that:
a) Revelstone productions has been founded by genuine Covenant fans
b) they are trying to secure funding without mentioning the more 'difficult' aspects of the story to studios, suggesting that they are at least thinking of including them in the film
and c) SRD himself is cautiously optimistic about the project. This from a man who has seen coutless ill-concieved attempts at bringing the Chrons to the big screen.
2) Changes will have to be made. Some bits will have to be cut, others may have to be added. Events that are cut may be combined with other parts of the book to speed things along. This is not necessarily a bad thing; see Peter Jackson's addition of elves at Helm's Deep. One of the golden rules of filmmaking (and I'd expect it to be even more pertinent for an adaptation) is not to include any characters/events that are not absolutely essential to the story. I fully expect that we'll lose considerable chunks of each book, possibly including some of our fabourite scenes like the destruction of the wraiths (although in terms of prettiness and setting the scene this could easily make it in) and TC's first journey with Foamfollower/the introduction of Quaan and his eomen.
Interestingly, viewed like this I don't see how the rape scene can possibly be left out. It would certainly make the the film much more acceptable to the audience and the studio if TC simply lost his rag and hit Lena, but without the rape there would obviously be no Elena and then the series pretty much grinds to a halt after LFB.
Finally, I'm pretty relaxed about it all because I think I'd rather see a bad TC movie made than no movie at all. Partly because it may inspire someone else to do a better job at a later date but primarily because it will draw additional attention to the books whatever happens. Ask yourself this: How many times, have you been told to read Battlefield Earth because it's so much better than the movie?
"Touch me, you will not!"
Regarding the mooted movie, I think we need to step back and do two things:
1) Cut these guys some slack. All around this board I see people getting worked up about TCTC getting butchered by Hollywood, when all they have to base this on is their own supposition and one strange (and now confirmed inaccurate) press release. All we know for sure is that:
a) Revelstone productions has been founded by genuine Covenant fans
b) they are trying to secure funding without mentioning the more 'difficult' aspects of the story to studios, suggesting that they are at least thinking of including them in the film
and c) SRD himself is cautiously optimistic about the project. This from a man who has seen coutless ill-concieved attempts at bringing the Chrons to the big screen.
2) Changes will have to be made. Some bits will have to be cut, others may have to be added. Events that are cut may be combined with other parts of the book to speed things along. This is not necessarily a bad thing; see Peter Jackson's addition of elves at Helm's Deep. One of the golden rules of filmmaking (and I'd expect it to be even more pertinent for an adaptation) is not to include any characters/events that are not absolutely essential to the story. I fully expect that we'll lose considerable chunks of each book, possibly including some of our fabourite scenes like the destruction of the wraiths (although in terms of prettiness and setting the scene this could easily make it in) and TC's first journey with Foamfollower/the introduction of Quaan and his eomen.
Interestingly, viewed like this I don't see how the rape scene can possibly be left out. It would certainly make the the film much more acceptable to the audience and the studio if TC simply lost his rag and hit Lena, but without the rape there would obviously be no Elena and then the series pretty much grinds to a halt after LFB.
Finally, I'm pretty relaxed about it all because I think I'd rather see a bad TC movie made than no movie at all. Partly because it may inspire someone else to do a better job at a later date but primarily because it will draw additional attention to the books whatever happens. Ask yourself this: How many times, have you been told to read Battlefield Earth because it's so much better than the movie?
Q. Why do Communists drink herbal tea?
A. Because proper tea is theft.
A. Because proper tea is theft.
Doing the rape scene that way would cheapen the entire movie IMO. This scene has substantial consequences over the rest of the story. Having it be the result of a rape makes Covenant into who he is as he attempts to atone for it later. Having him be possessed by a Raver would detract from all that and make TC just another victim.Darth Revan wrote:One way they could do the rape scene is by having a Raver possess him or something...
Because on screen, that scene just isn't possible to do with alienating a lot of people from the film... so if they make it seem that Thomas didn't do it... I don't know... *shrug*
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Ken Socrates
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Yeah, but we're talking about Hollywood, here. Chances are one in a billion that any studio would have the guts to include that scene, even knowing that, dramatically, the payoff would be huge later in the story. Think about it, what are the worst faults the industry allows in it's leading men, it's "heroes"? Smoking and drinking, basically, and poor relationship skills which, somehow, are overlooked so they can hook up with the female lead before the film ends.
Another question would be: Is there a Hollywood actor brave enough to do that scene, read it in the script and say "Okay, I get it. I'll do it." No, most of them are too concerned with image to even consider it.
The only hope is that a studio with balls, like Mirimax, gets involved and they go ahead with it knowing that a) its essential to the character and b) the controversy would provide a hell of a lot of publicity.
Another question would be: Is there a Hollywood actor brave enough to do that scene, read it in the script and say "Okay, I get it. I'll do it." No, most of them are too concerned with image to even consider it.
The only hope is that a studio with balls, like Mirimax, gets involved and they go ahead with it knowing that a) its essential to the character and b) the controversy would provide a hell of a lot of publicity.
If there's a road, then there has to be a place.
If this is time, then we've got some time to waste.
If this is time, then we've got some time to waste.
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Gadget nee Jemcheeta
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If what Orloff said was true, they'll include it. Or at least imply it... the best way I think they could do it is have it be a blackout with flashbacks, like a nightmare...
it's too essential to the story to leave it out, it's just that simple.
it's too essential to the story to leave it out, it's just that simple.
Start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can.
use what you have,
do what you can.
Amani's right - certainly the scene does not have to be shown in all of its graphic horror. Some of the worst scenes in the history of film involve rape (The Prince of Tides comes immediately to mind.) Also, a graphic rendition of that scene would by necessity involve an 'R' rating, which would hurt box office sales.
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Seafoam Understone
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Heh, another idea... well, read my script "TCTC First Draft Script" thread.JemCheeta wrote:If what Orloff said was true, they'll include it. Or at least imply it... the best way I think they could do it is have it be a blackout with flashbacks, like a nightmare...
it's too essential to the story to leave it out, it's just that simple.
I was shocked to find out that I didn't have the rape scene included with my snippetts.
But have done so now so they'll be no searching as it is the most recent post for that particular thread. There are ways to depict sexual acts (however violent and distasteful) on screen without being too graphic. Nudity can be done in such a way that nothing explicit (i.e. nipples) are shown, yet still convey that a dress is being torn and the girl's body is exposed to her attacker. This all of course belongs to the skilled hands of a good (film) editor who'd be able to cut away, interject a different scene and so forth.
It's do-able and I feel (with society's tolerances today) be acceptable, though Covenant for the next hour of filming will be unpopular.
Considering the script the rape probably won't take place until about 30 to 45 minutes into the film, cinematically speaking that's a while into the story whereas compared to the book the rape take place fairly early on, considering the length of the book itself.
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amanibhavam
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Come on, folks, they do not have to actually show the rape.
Covenant gets visibly upset, advances on the girl. Buries his hand in her tunic and rends.
Cut.
TC is lying on his stomach on the bank of the Mithil, retching and generally feeling miserable. Lena is crouching behind the bush naked or in tattered garments, suppressing her sobs, then sneaks quietly towards the village.
Everybody would understand what had happened and still no rape shown.
Covenant gets visibly upset, advances on the girl. Buries his hand in her tunic and rends.
Cut.
TC is lying on his stomach on the bank of the Mithil, retching and generally feeling miserable. Lena is crouching behind the bush naked or in tattered garments, suppressing her sobs, then sneaks quietly towards the village.
Everybody would understand what had happened and still no rape shown.
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Linux, obviously.Matrixman wrote:Good question, drew. Do we suddenly jump from rotary dial telephones to cell phones, and typewriters to word processors?
Are we going to have Covenant turn on his computer, to find his inbox flooded with hate mail? --->"The leper MUST DIE!"
Which would bring up another question: is TC a Windows person or a Mac person? Hmmm...
Oh yes, I CAN hope... for an early release of the next TC book!
"Never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed man."
"Never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed man."
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The Stoned Downer
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It may be possible to have the rape scene without turning off the viewers. For instance, by following the story line, they play up the fact that TC beleives he's in a dream. That everything he see's and does isn't real. They can also make it seem that Lena. in the custom of her people, are perhaps overly 'friendly' especially to someone from our world. They could even go so far as depicting her people as sexually free-spirited and that the 'rape' to them is not that big a deal. TC could then still feel as guilty and despotic as he does in the story. The audience could then begin to feel his sorrow and pain for inadvertently committing such a horrible crime.
It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.
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***Demondim***
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amanibhavam
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I think this is an utter distortion of the original intent of SRD. I hope it never comes out this way.The Stoned Downer wrote:It may be possible to have the rape scene without turning off the viewers. For instance, by following the story line, they play up the fact that TC beleives he's in a dream. That everything he see's and does isn't real. They can also make it seem that Lena. in the custom of her people, are perhaps overly 'friendly' especially to someone from our world. They could even go so far as depicting her people as sexually free-spirited and that the 'rape' to them is not that big a deal. TC could then still feel as guilty and despotic as he does in the story. The audience could then begin to feel his sorrow and pain for inadvertently committing such a horrible crime.
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wayfriend
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David Thewlis ... here. Interesting candidate ... probably better known as Professor Lupin in Harry Potter 3.***Demondim*** wrote:I got it!!! The guy who played the lead in Naked!! ... the perfect Covenent!!
(IMDB is goodness.
).