SRD's politics!!!!

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:17 pm

With some writers strong religious/political beliefs are a part of the package. With Card or C. S. Lewis there is usually some religion in there. But as I said, as long as it doesn't completely take over the story, I am OK with things like that.

Post by **MsMary** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:11 am

I agree, Duchess.

For example, you can read Ender's Game, Pastwatch, or Songmaster, for example, and just enjoy the narrative. I don't think Card put any overpowering religious message there. (No doubt you can find one, if you want to look for it. But that is true of many writers' works. Many were sure that LOTR was an allegory, though JRRT denied it.)

Honestly, though, I still haven't gotten a good answer as to why anyone would think that Card is advocating censorship - that's not really what I see in the article that was posted.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:09 pm

MsMary, perhaps you could ask a follow-up question in the Gradual Interview.

Since SRD did not specify where he got this idea about Card, whether through something he read or heard -- perhaps you could ask him.

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:26 pm

That doesn't really seem to be the kind of question he likes answering regularly....

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:53 pm

I agree, I don't think you'll get the answer you're looking for.

Post by **Dragonlily** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:45 pm

SRD has dealt with OSC professionally, because he included Card's "Eumenides in the Fourth Floor Lav" in his collection of short stories STRANGE DREAMS. So he's bound to have had personal conversations with him.

Also, SRD writes the kind of anti-hero Card was inveighing against in that linked interview.

Get this from OSC:

There is no inner life of a person in isolation. There is only the life of the individual in relation to others. Inner life is a myth, and a harmful one at that.

Can you imagine SRD's reaction to that? I think Card went way too far myself.

Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Inner life is a myth. Ho ho. What it must be like being in HIS head?! Quiet I guess... haha.

Post by **Dragonlily** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:01 pm

He said in the interview

I say this as a confirmed introvert (grins). So when I see other writers exploring a person's "feelings," I get impatient.

What Card is probably referring to, without realizing it, is that he has not managed to make his inner life work out for himself. He does, after all, have a built-in life conflict: trying to be creative while trying to obey the rules of thought of a strict religion.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:33 pm

I must admit that the incongruities of Donaldson's politics surprise me. When coming up with examples of evil people, Limbaugh appears in a short list of three (including Hitler)?!? WTF? Sure, you may disagree with Limbaugh's ideas, but just because you disagree, the man is on the same plane as a violent dictator responsible for murdering millions of innocent people? That kind of remark cheapens the holicaust, puts it on the same level as a petty political pet-peave. This is disappointing in a man whom I admire so deeply for his writings.

Can't Donaldson find some Democrat examples of "evil?" Clinton giving China and North Korea our nuclear and missle technology secrets, maybe? Surely this is worse than a talk show host exercising his free speech rights.

Post by **MsMary** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:47 pm

Dragonlily wrote:He said in the interview
I say this as a confirmed introvert (grins). So when I see other writers exploring a person's "feelings," I get impatient.
What Card is probably referring to, without realizing it, is that he has not managed to make his inner life work out for himself. He does, after all, have a built-in life conflict: trying to be creative while trying to obey the rules of thought of a strict religion.

I am not sure that he has that problem in the sense that you are suggesting, Dragonlily.

And I think I understand what he is saying about "inner life." Even a so-called "inner life" would deal with how you are relating to others and being influenced by them, wouldn't it? So it's not "in isolation."

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:23 pm

It's not that big a deal...I had assumed from the get-go that SRD had left-leanings. His recurring theme of the vile and oppressive action taken by the wounded and sometimes meek being redeemed through a journey within and without comes from an area closer to Ghandi or Chomsky than it does Michael Savage or Machiavelli. Moreover, creeps like Holt Fastner (the very picture of Greed and "he with the most toys wins" mentality...the worst aspects of the right) get what are coming to them..in Holt's case, at the hands of the redeemed. He is truly an enlightened man by his writungs, so its not too suprising.

That said...who cares?! Yes, it gives me comfort and satisfaction to a degree that SRD seems to share some of my beliefs, but would I not read him just because he was a RWNJ? No. Would his writing style be different, causing me to not like his writing as much? Perhaps, but I cannot say. All I know is that I love what he does. Same w/ Stephen King, though he is a known lefty.

I mean, I always though Ted Nugent was something of ho-hum guitar player and a bad songwriter. I never not liked him cuz he is a rabid rightie. On the other hand, I love Van Morrison, and he is (or was?) a born-again, something I do not embrace. I however, own something like 15 Morrsion discs. Who cares.

Post by **Cole** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:19 pm

At least he doesn't shove his political leanings down yer throat.

But yeah, I couldn't care less really.

Post by **Peven** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:59 pm

Malik23 wrote:I must admit that the incongruities of Donaldson's politics surprise me. When coming up with examples of evil people, Limbaugh appears in a short list of three (including Hitler)?!? WTF? Sure, you may disagree with Limbaugh's ideas, but just because you disagree, the man is on the same plane as a violent dictator responsible for murdering millions of innocent people? That kind of remark cheapens the holicaust, puts it on the same level as a petty political pet-peave. This is disappointing in a man whom I admire so deeply for his writings.

Can't Donaldson find some Democrat examples of "evil?" Clinton giving China and North Korea our nuclear and missle technology secrets, maybe? Surely this is worse than a talk show host exercising his free speech rights.

maybe SRD just thinks that if Limbough were around 65-70 yrs ago he might have ended up on Hitler's payroll. i certainly think he would have. just because Limbough doesn't hold a public office doesn't mean he is free from "villian" status.

the guy spreads intolerance and misinformation, manipulating millions of people who trust him to tell them how and what to think. he has done what he can to help suppress rights of those who he and his ilk have deemed threats to "family values" and the "sanctity of marriage", while being divorced multiple times himself. he has called for further criminalization of those addicted to drugs, yet lied to and stonewalled police in their investigation of Dr's who were illegally prescribing painkillers when he himself was busted for abusing drugs.

and he is part of the propaganda machine that built support for a war that most can now see was a sham from the start and is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, thousands of young Americans, and has soiled America's reputation in the world community, turning those who used to be allies into critics. the fact that Rush has made many millions of $ while helping to enable all this to happen only furthers the case for him being labeled evil.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:39 am

Wow, you've dug up something I said a year and a half ago in order to argue about it now. It must have really struck a nerve with you.

I'm not going to defend Rush Limbaugh. I could not care less how much you dislike him. Hell, he bugs the crap out of me sometimes. I'm not a "dittohead." I'm not even Republican.

However, everything you've mentioned--even if 100% true--still doesn't put him anywhere close to "Hitler status."

Rush is expressing his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's not violating anyone else's rights, or hurting them in the slightest bit, just because he's stating his opinion. Even if you think he is wrong, this is the ONLY thing he is "guilty" of. It doesn't come close to killing millions of Jews, no matter how you try to spin it. To make this comparison CHEAPENS THE HORRIFIC SUFFERING OF THE MILLIONS OF JEWS WHO WERE TORTURED AND DIED UNDER HITLER'S REIGN.

So go whine about Rush to someone else. I do not care about your petty attacks on talk show hosts. Really, you could whine about sportscasters and I wouldn't care any less. The silly things that political "entertainers" say are at the bottom of my list of things to worry about. Obviously, this is not the case for you.

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:30 pm

This is clearly a "let's take a breath" moment here. i'm not the mod, but really let's rein this one in before it gets bitter.

My guess, malik, is that as a new Watchie...or relativley new one, Peven likely was searching around looking at topics and stumbled upon this one nad reacted to it. I doubt he went digging up or searching for a means by which to attack you or your prior writings.

Further, my guess is that Peven, given the chance would have tightened up the argument that SRD was making, which was based in propaganda, not war crimes. It is always dangerous to play the Nazi card.

And Peven...don't EVER argue with a Libertarian! They have more rhetorical stamina than any four other politcal junkies you wish to combine.

Post by **Creator** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:37 pm

Well said Guns.

For ALL who post here, the following Rules and Guidelines merit reviewing

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 217#448217

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Please treat each other with respect and happy posting!

Post by **Peven** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:35 pm

i apologize if any of my comments were taken as a personal shot at anyone here. that is, unless Rush is here.

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:41 pm

not to worry P.

Post by **Cagliostro** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:03 pm

I'm bored and stumbled across this thread. I wasn't at all surprised to hear SRD bash Bush. I've always assumed he was a leftie, and even though I'd read his books if he was a stanch neo-conservative, I did connect with a few things from his books that were toward the left. I know you can't always read too much into things while reading someone, but I could sniff a hint that evangelicals were not on his fanlist from that bit in the faith tent where Covenant was thrown out after he admitted he was a leper. And bits and bobs of the Gap just had me drawing political parallels at times. And even though I'm sure he didn't intend them, reading the last book of the Gap around 9/11, I saw strange parallels. Mind you, I don't remember what they are now...

Post by **Stark Raver** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:38 pm

MsMary wrote:The question I have is why would SRD dismiss OSC out of hand as a writer just because he disagrees with his politics?

I happen to disagree with OSC's politics also, but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying his stories.

I would be interested in hearing what people have to say on this subject.

That is interesting. I am the opposite of you, I agree with Card's politics and completely understand why Donaldson is the way he is. The simple answer is that many leftists are the opposite of what they claim. In short, it seems that Donaldson is intollerant.

Isn't it funny that in Donaldson's books he speaks so eloquently about that which is freely given, but in real life, he supports confiscatory government.

Something about cenorship. Our 1st ammendment does not apply to publicly owned stuff, it only applies to government cencorship. Free speech applies to political speech. Look to Mccain/Feingold campaign finance reform bill to find out which side supports government censorship. I believe all the dems voted for it and while Bush and some republicans supported it almost all opposition came from right wingers. Bush and Mccain do not represent the right wing of the republican party.

Paven, have you forgotten, Hitler was a socialist. He was a leftist. He didn't stand for the preservation of the Weimer Republic or a return to monarchy. I doubt very seriously Rush would have been a favorite of a socialist. Hitler was also a fascist. It strikes me as funny that people forget fascists seek to bring all things under government control, once again the opposite of Limbaugh. I am a ditto head, and was before I even heard of Limbaugh.

Paven, you attack Bush saying he killed hundreds of thousands. I dispute that number. However, I congratulate him for liberating 50 million. Admittedly, if he had a magic ring maybe.......

Another thing I've seen in the thread is the idea that Card is anti gay, he is not. He is pro marriage. All christians are in that sense anti-gay. I am a Catholic and my greatest objection to homosexuality is fornication. Any sex outside of marriage is a no no to most of the monotheistic religions. Though admittedly, fornication is fun

Most jews, christians, and I would presume muslims, understand that all men are sinful. Doesn't TC even say that only the guilty have power and can be saved. I disagree because I believe Christ was innocent and He surely has power.

On another note: One can definately read, watch, or listen to people of differing political beliefs. If they could'nt what would a righty like me do with most artists being lefties. I find one thing funny though, lefty artists like to rail against materialism yet their very livelyhood comes from materialsm. That being, people buy art not because they need it but because they want it.

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SRD's politics!!!!