WOW II - great-granddaddy of all spoilers

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:33 am

How did he get there?

The fire he burnt his hand in, which was the mechanism for transporting Cov and Linden in the Second Chrons.

Post by **Creator** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:17 pm

Murrin wrote:
How did he get there?
The fire he burnt his hand in, which was the mechanism for transporting Cov and Linden in the Second Chrons.

Yes, and remember Roger's comment that

Spoiler

"he's just meat".

That's because his spirit / soul was in the Land!

Post by **wayfriend** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:38 pm

Folks - this means that Jeremiah has been in the land for 3,500 years.

Apparently, in his horsey pajamas the entire time ...

C'mon people! Try harder!

Jeremiah is not the only one who requires healing. Joan does. Certainly, she requires emotional and spiritual healing, whereas Jeremiah requires healing of a more physical variety. And Roger is a question mark - is he a plain old bad guy, or were his actions the result of a spiritual and emotional issue he he needs to overcome?

But I do agree that, if the creator chose another person, then it would be another person who would be helped in the process of helping the creator. He does pay one back for the effort.

Lord Foul claims to "have" Jeremiah. How does that fit in?

Post by **Aleksandr** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:04 pm

Jeremiah is not the only one who requires healing. Joan does. Certainly, she requires emotional and spiritual healing

Linden tried and failed to heal Anele’s madness (which also does not respond to hurtloam). I suspect that Joan’s would also surpass her abilities.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:43 pm

Aleksandr wrote:
Jeremiah is not the only one who requires healing. Joan does. Certainly, she requires emotional and spiritual healing
Linden tried and failed to heal Anele’s madness (which also does not respond to hurtloam). I suspect that Joan’s would also surpass her abilities.

Actually Linden was ready to heal him once she had the Staff of Law and from what Anele said, she could of done it. He refused. He said it wasnt time yet or something to that effect.
SoulBiter

Post by **wayfriend** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:33 am

So here's an idea. I don't think it qualifies for daddiness at any level, but ...

How many people are on the stone when the summons happens? 1... 2... 3... 4... 5! Linden, Roger, Joan, Jeremiah, and ... Sandy Eastwall. Sandy Eastwall, laying right there on the rock, right next to everyone else.

Now, cast your mind back. Linden calls Sandy, can you come over? Sandy's practically already there. She says she's suddenly worried about Jeremiah, too.

Now I kind of wonder if that wasn't something like "On my way home I met this old guy, and he freaked me out, saying stuff, and I have no clue what it all means, but I sorta understood Jeremiah is in trouble, so I had to get right back over, and I'm not quite ready to admit that all that happened yet, but here I am" going on.

In other words, could it be that Sandy met the old man that night? And that she has been summoned to the Land?

Post by **MrKABC** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:41 am

Hmmmm... didn't think about Sandy... I wonder if she is a throwaway character though... like Dr. Berenford.

Post by **Furls Fire** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:46 am

[mod edit - read at your own risk! dlbpharmd]

Spoiler

Okay, if you look at Time as a circle and not a straight line, you will see where I'm coming from when I say Thomas is the Creator. When the Third Chrons ends, it's going to end with Thomas accepting Lord Foul. When this happens, the universe as we know it will cease to exist and a new one will be formed....thus, throwing us to a "new" beginning. By Thomas accepting Foul as part of himself, he thus becomes the creator of the new universe. And the circle begins again. Hence...Thomas is the Creator.

Okay...I know it's a stretch. But, I'm going by Donaldson's interview from about 20 years ago.

Edit: oops

sorry, guys. Didn't realize that speculation could be considered a spoiler... my bad.

Post by **Sheol** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:28 pm

I know why he called it a spoiler. It is because it means nothing at all. He just wanted to keep people guessing about the plot of the story. That is what I would like to believe.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:39 pm

Loremaster wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:It means Jeremiah is the Creator.
Uh . . . . no. Covenant was in the Land before Jeremiah was born. Hell, the Land existed long before that.

Uh . . . . try not to be a snob.

Post by **Revan** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:17 pm

Wayfriend wrote:So here's an idea. I don't think it qualifies for daddiness at any level, but ...

How many people are on the stone when the summons happens? 1... 2... 3... 4... 5! Linden, Roger, Joan, Jeremiah, and ... Sandy Eastwall. Sandy Eastwall, laying right there on the rock, right next to everyone else.

Now, cast your mind back. Linden calls Sandy, can you come over? Sandy's practically already there. She says she's suddenly worried about Jeremiah, too.

Now I kind of wonder if that wasn't something like "On my way home I met this old guy, and he freaked me out, saying stuff, and I have no clue what it all means, but I sorta understood Jeremiah is in trouble, so I had to get right back over, and I'm not quite ready to admit that all that happened yet, but here I am" going on.

In other words, could it be that Sandy met the old man that night? And that she has been summoned to the Land?

That was my theory. I hate it when people steal other people's theories.

Spoiler

Okay, if you look at Time as a circle and not a straight line, you will see where I'm coming from when I say Thomas is the Creator. When the Third Chrons ends, it's going to end with Thomas accepting Lord Foul. When this happens, the universe as we know it will cease to exist and a new one will be formed....thus, throwing us to a "new" beginning. By Thomas accepting Foul as part of himself, he thus becomes the creator of the new universe. And the circle begins again. Hence...Thomas is the Creator.

Okay...I know it's a stretch. But, I'm going by Donaldson's interview from about 20 years ago.

This is my theory as well!!!

Or nearly so...

Foul will escape, the Earth destroyed, but Thomas, as the Arch of Time, will do battle with him nonetheless, and also the Creator will enter the situation somehow, and The Earth will be created again, and this time with no Despiser to mess it all up again.

Post by **urieth** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:47 pm

I'm new to the forum so my apologies if I screw something up. I had a sudden thought, in reference to the 'grand-daddy of all spoilers' and felt the need to post for the first time. I'm not sure if it qualifies as a spoiler or not, so I'll just err on the side of caution. Here goes...

Spoiler

What if the Land truly is a figment of Covenant's imagination? What if everything he's been through has been a dream, born out of desperation and a need to escape his current reality? Perhaps he is not only 'Lord Foul' as has been suggested, but the Creator as well. Lord Foul represents his capacity to do harm and the Creator represents his capacity to 'do good'. Perhaps, at the end of the final book, we'll find him waking up in the road after almost being hit by that police car and thinking, 'It /was/ all a dream, after all'.

Just a thought...

Post by **drew** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:52 pm

Acctually, I thought this one up myself a little while back..but now it kind of seems like a cheap ending..not to mention how insane it would make poor Thomas...to him it's been about 3520 years since that accident..imagagine waking up and finding out that you just been dreaming all that time!!

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:24 pm

Shades of The Bob Newhart Show.....

Post by **srtrout** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:21 pm

Regarding the idea that perhaps the whole thing was just in Covenant's imagination; I believe somewhere in the gradual interview SRD mentions that after the 2nd or 3rd book of the first chronicles, that he presumed that everyone understood that the Land was real. I think it had to do with the question of whether or not Hile Troy had really lived in the "real" world.

But, another fanciful idea: Jeremiah was building the land out of Legos at the beginning of Runes - could it all be in his imagination?

As I have mentioned previously, the comments you all have referred to that SRD made about the 3rd chronicles many years ago have caused me significant trepidation - I worry about the potential for TC having an evil character to him.

TC's evil deed in the f1st and 2nd chronicles was obviously the rape, which although abhorrent was more of a sign of human weakness rather than a conscious decision to do someone harm.( I fully realize that many if not all rapes in the real world are primarily violent rather than primarily sexual acts).

It will be an interesting journey through SRD's psyche over the next 9 years or so!

Srtrout

Post by **urieth** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:04 pm

I guess what struck me about the whole thing was the fact that Linden had not encountered the ochre-robed man prior to being sent to the Land. Why not? Perhaps because Covenant is the Creator and he's essential 'dead' in the real world. Linden didn't encounter him because he's no longer in our world.

What was that line from the prophecy concerning the white gold? 'he has the capacity to save or damn the world'? Sounds a lot like a Creator/Lord Foul paradox to me. The white gold is, after all, a paradox. And Covenant is the white gold...

Post by **Creator** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:53 pm

Welcome to the Watch urieth!

Welcome and Be True!!!

Post by **Loredoctor** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:23 pm

Lord Mhoram wrote:
Loremaster wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:It means Jeremiah is the Creator.
Uh . . . . no. Covenant was in the Land before Jeremiah was born. Hell, the Land existed long before that.
Uh . . . . try not to be a snob.

Sorry, but your point was simply wrong.

Post by **danlo** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:04 am

Don't worry Loremaster! You're not a snob! (you're just mean!

)

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:52 am

Of course. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

WOW II - great-granddaddy of all spoilers

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