Sunder- A Worthy Successor to H L Mhoram?/ Gov't of the Land

Post by **[Syl]** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:32 pm

Why not? The story of Sunder's ancestry has to be pretty interesting... bunch of normal guys until they suddenly go nuts around middle-age. The line seems to go back all the way to around Mhoram's time, and as crazy as they must have seemed, they survived for millenia. Very interesting. Imagine what things would have been like if Nassic hadn't been killed and the vision then came to Sunder?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:22 pm

I don't remember anything about that. It's been a while since I read the parts of TWL with Nassic. Normal until they get a vision in middle-age? Wow. I just figured they somehow managed to pass this true vision of the Land down to the next generation without it getting lost. The trick, of course, being that they were put under tremendous pressure to NOT believe that nonsense. And yet they held on. I'd like to look into their heads to see where their strength to hold on comes from.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:34 pm

Sunder's 'mad' lineage only goes back three generations, when his great-grandfather became Seer and suddenly gained the knowledge of Covenant and his titles - and that he would arrive soon. Just before each one died, he passed on the power of prophecy to his son - unfortunately they were driven quite mad by this revelation, and Nassic was killed before he could pass it on to Sunder.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:42 pm

Ah. Thanks for the info. I can't believe I forgot all that!!

Of course, "mad" is a relative term. Nassic seemed quite sane to me when Covenant and Linden first arrived. But, again, I should read that again. Whenever I pick up TWL, I can't help but skip right to when they first run into the Search. "And your gladness" - he touched the side of his jaw with one hand - "is a weighty matter."

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:09 pm

Nassic was a fascinating character, the last person who remembers the real land, even when the people of Revelstone itself don't! what Fist says, about being, Mhoram's successor, but not as Lord exactly interests me..more of a Leader of the Land kind of thing? I like it. Sunder was very interesting, courageous, and strong. But can he leave Andelain? Does anyone know? I mean, Revelstone has been the seat of the Land's leadership dating way before even Covenant's time.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:00 pm

Lord M:

Nassic was a fascinating character, the last person who remembers the real land, even when the people of Revelstone itself don't! what Fist says, about being, Mhoram's successor, but not as Lord exactly interests me..more of a Leader of the Land kind of thing? I like it. Sunder was very interesting, courageous, and strong. But can he leave Andelain? Does anyone know? I mean, Revelstone has been the seat of the Land's leadership dating way before even Covenant's time.

But Covenant gave Revelstone to the Haruchai. Who's to say that the
Haruchai will ever allow anyone else to ever live there now?

Murrin:

Sunder's 'mad' lineage only goes back three generations, when his great-grandfather became Seer and suddenly gained the knowledge of Covenant and his titles - and that he would arrive soon. Just before each one died, he passed on the power of prophecy to his son - unfortunately they were driven quite mad by this revelation, and Nassic was killed before he could pass it on to Sunder.

Um, no.

Nassic's ancestor had the vision of Covenant's return well before the
Sunbane came to the Land.

"Tell me your name."

"I am Nassic son of Jous son of Prassan," the old man replied in a
fumbling voice. "Descended in direct lingeage son by son from the
Unfettered One."

Covenant winced. The Unfettered Ones he had known were
hermits freed from all normal responsibilities so that they could
pursue their private visions. An Unfettered One had once saved
his life-- and died. Another had read his dreams-- and told him he
dreamed the truth. He took a stringent grip on himself. "What was
his calling?"

"Ur-Lord, he saw your return. Therefore he came to this place--
to the vale below Kevin's Watch, which was given its name in an
age so long past that none remembers its meaning."

Briefly, Nassic's tone stabilized, as if he were reciting something
he had memorized long ago. "He built the temple as a place of
welcome for you, and a place of healing, for it was not forgotten
among the people of those years that your own world is one of
great hazard and strife, inflicting harm even upon its heroes. In his
vision, he beheld the severe doom of the Sunbane, though to him
it was nameless as nightmare, and he foresaw that the Unbeliever,
ur-Lord Illender, Prover of Life, would return to combat it. From son
to son he handed down his vision, faith un--"

We know that the Sunbane has afflicted the Land for well more than
five generations, so it was not Nassic's great-grandfather who built
the temple.

Post by **[Syl]** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:40 pm

Thanks, Kaos. Thought I was remembering incorrectly for a moment.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:30 am

KaosArcana wrote:But Covenant gave Revelstone to the Haruchai. Who's to say that the Haruchai will ever allow anyone else to ever live there now?

When the Haruchai first came to the Land, we were looking to conquer. And when we saw Revelstone, we decided it would be ours. But we were greatly changed in the days that followed. We know the glories that the people of the Land are capable of, and that Revelstone was built by our Rockbrothers because of such glories.

We safeguard Revelstone, and help those who will bring it back to its glory - we do not claim it for our exclusive use.

Thanks for the info on Nassic. I'd have gotten around to reading it, but now I don't have to.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:38 am

Fist:

KaosArcana wrote:
But Covenant gave Revelstone to the Haruchai. Who's to say that the Haruchai will ever allow anyone else to ever live there now?
When the Haruchai first came to the Land, we were looking to conquer. And when we saw Revelstone, we decided it would be ours. But we were greatly changed in the days that followed. We know the glories that the people of the Land are capable of, and that Revelstone was built by our Rockbrothers because of such glories.

We safeguard Revelstone, and help those who will bring it back to its glory - we do not claim it for our exclusive use.

Thanks for the info on Nassic. I'd have gotten around to reading it, but now I don't have to.

Um, okay.

Truthfully, I'm of the persuasion that the atrocities committed by the
Clave in Revelstone are such that I can't see using it as a seat of
government again.

I mean, would you want to put government offices in
Auschwitz?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:45 am

I see your point. But maybe Revelstone needs to be redeemed, so that it can be (hopefully) ultimately known for the glory and beauty that it was originally known for, rather than what it was turned into for a time.

Post by **Damelon** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:12 am

Going back a little in this thread, since Sunder was a descendant of an Unfettered One who forsaw the Sunbane; he could, by lineage, be called a heir of the Lords of Mhoram's time.

Since he also hadn't sworn the Oath of Peace, he was naturally able to attune himself to the krill much faster than Mhoram was able to do so. I think he certainly had the capacity to have been a lord in Mhoram's time. [/i]

Post by **danlo** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:05 am

2 VERY good points Damelon!

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:59 pm

But wasn't it mentioned that he named himself 'The Unfettered One' after he had the visions?
I would assume now that the Unfettered One came after the Lords became the Clave (Since he calls himself The Unfettered One, not An Unfettered One, I guess maybe the rites of Unfettering and the Loresraat were forgotten), but before the Clave corrupted the legends enough for them to begin the Sunbane.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:23 pm

Another very interesting point. Man, this is getting complicated!!

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:09 pm

Revelstone is the traditional seat of power. For millenia, the people of the Land have looked to Revelstone for stability and power, whether it be for good (the Lords) or ill (the Clave). I don't see why it doesn't deserve another chance...plus, it has the largest concentrated population in the Land.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:46 pm

Lord Mhoram:

Revelstone is the traditional seat of power. For millenia, the people of the Land have looked to Revelstone for stability and power, whether it be for good (the Lords) or ill (the Clave). I don't see why it doesn't deserve another chance...plus, it has the largest concentrated population in the Land.

Oh, the fact that it was a charnal house for 2000 years may make
people a little bit reluctant to make it their seat of government now.

As to your second point ... the vast majority of the survivors
of the Land are going to be people who aided in the slaughter of
everyone else... hmmm.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:34 pm

Well, that's part of Sunder's challenge now, isn't it? If he's as good as we all say he is, he'll be able to work with these people.

Post by **caamora** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:22 am

Great point, Kaos. I had never thought of Revelstone that way. It stands to reason that Revelstone would not be the seat of leadership anymore for the simple fact that it had been a place of human sacrifice for the last two thousand years. The people of the Land never knew it before the Sunbane so, unlike us, would see it as a place of death. Maybe a new Revelstone could be built - maybe............in Andelain? After all, Sunder and Hollian are now in Andelain and they know that it is not an evil place.

(shouldn't this be on the speculation thread for the Third Chrons?

)

Post by **Damelon** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:50 am

Murrin, I'm not so sure that the Unfettered One who had the initial vision lived during the Clave. My assumption is that he lived before samadhi corrupted the Council. I seem to remember a sentence about that first one seeing the Sunbane as a evil he could not describe - or something along that line.

Post by **[Syl]** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:46 pm

But guys, you're forgetting one thing... it's freakin' Revelstone! It's not like you can just pack up and move it. For good or for ill, it's the seat of power for the land, and the people are not fickle enough to throw it away over bad memories. All you have to do is look at the walls to see why that's not possible. In two hundred years (much less a couple thousand), what's going to remain? The majesty of revelstone or the bad memories of the Clave? My WGDs are on Revelstone.