Foul's "Deeper Purpose" ?

[Caer Bombadil]

Okay, we all knew from the beginning Foul's Big Motivation was to obtain the white gold, shatter the Arch of Time, and in so doing break out of the universe back into the greater cosmos, the Timeless Halls or whatever, outside where the Creator dwells.

When Linden "interviews" Foul as he manifests in Anele, he repeats this same refrain, but adds something I didn't expect:

"But if you remain free, apt, and able to satisfy me, my release is assured. Your attempts to oppose me will secure it. The Arch will be torn asunder, and I will reclaim my rightful place among the eternal heavens. My Enemy will be unable to thwart me."
Cunningly the rank voice added, "There is more, but of my deeper purpose I will not speak."

Well, I do feel a foreshadowing of whatever revelation is in store in The Last Dark. Surely his deeper purpose consists of more than just opening a can of whoopass on the Creator and then partying!

Anyone have any insights or speculations, given where we stand now?

[Old Darth]

Perhaps Foul is hoping he can manipulate events so that he can gain entry into our ie the real world.

[drew]

Or become a Creator Himself.

[Old Darth]

Or become a Creator Himself.

That has to be it! I totally concur Drew!

[Warmark]

how can he 'become the creator' what will he create?

[Caer Bombadil]

Or become a Creator Himself.

That occurred to me. But if that's all he wanted, why couldn't he do so to begin with, instead of mucking up the Creator's creation instead? It's almost as if he can't build a decent sand castle of his own, so he goes around kicking down everyone else'.

Is there some kind of "one universe per Cosmos at any one time(lessness)" rule that forced Despite to await its own turn to try?

Is there some kind of "best universe" contest going on such that Despite must try to sabotage the Creator's effort (and get locked into it for his trouble)? "Ah, nice execution, Creator. Andelain is lovely! And I love the way you incorporated Despite into it! Look at him running around and raging! We might have our blue ribbon entry here, folks!"

If you ask me, this goes to the very heart of Despite's essential nature. What could it want or dream if there's nothing left to destroy? What's the fun of flailing away at chaos and the darkness of blackness?

Maybe Old Darth was onto something here. Does Foul want to manifest fully in our universe, discover a whole new creation to trash?

Are we ultimately just dealing with a particularly evil-tempered Pinnochio here, who basically just wants to be "real"? *



* which point starts me musing about the concept of "real" in "Daughter of Regals"....

[firelion]

It would be neat if he got thrown into TC's and Linden's reality only to become powerless and mortal.Wonder how he would handle that?I bet he would either end up in an asylum,in jail,an alchoholic hobo,or commiting suicide-that would be a neat ending-a final image of Foul drinking Wild Irish Rose under a bridge somewhere.

[Worm of Despite]

Okay, we all knew from the beginning Foul's Big Motivation was to obtain the white gold, shatter the Arch of Time, and in so doing break out of the universe back into the greater cosmos, the Timeless Halls or whatever, outside where the Creator dwells.

When Linden "interviews" Foul as he manifests in Anele, he repeats this same refrain, but adds something I didn't expect:

"But if you remain free, apt, and able to satisfy me, my release is assured. Your attempts to oppose me will secure it. The Arch will be torn asunder, and I will reclaim my rightful place among the eternal heavens. My Enemy will be unable to thwart me."
Cunningly the rank voice added, "There is more, but of my deeper purpose I will not speak."

Well, I do feel a foreshadowing of whatever revelation is in store in The Last Dark. Surely his deeper purpose consists of more than just opening a can of whoopass on the Creator and then partying!

Anyone have any insights or speculations, given where we stand now?

My crackpot theory is that Foul is actually the good guy, and the Creator has always been evil. Didn't Donaldson say if he answered about the Creator then it would be the mother of all spoilers? I recall SRD describing the Creator as having bad breath or some such as Linden applied CPR to him. Maybe that signifies some kind of, um, evil.

[Softheart Fistfollower]

Foul the good guy??? Naa, no way. Why then would he constantly try to destroy all that is good and pure in the Land? Foul thrives off the destruction of peoples lives, the destruction of all he sees as good and pure. He derives pleasure from the total devastation of others and abhors all that is not of his own making.

[Worm of Despite]

See, this is why I said it was a crackpot theory.

[Loredoctor]

I recall SRD describing the Creator as having bad breath or some such as Linden applied CPR to him. Maybe that signifies some kind of, um, evil.

I took that as to represent the sickness of the Land: the Sunbane.

[Softheart Fistfollower]

Interesting theory. Does this mean his acne could be the caesures?!?

[Loredoctor]

LOL!!

[Fist and Faith]

Hey!!! I have a follower!!!! WOO HOO!!!

Go Fisty!
Go Fisty!
Go Fisty!
It's your birthday!

[Steve Hurtloam]

Imagine Foul as a normal mortal in our reality?

What powers does he have in the Land, really?

[Loredoctor]

Imagine Foul as a normal mortal in our reality?

What powers does he have in the Land, really?

Michael Moore

[Jerico]

The books are all about facing your inner despiser. In creating the world in which the Land is placed the Creator faced his inner despiser and not liking what he saw cast him into it. He is after all the Creator and able to do these kind of things. Now he can't kill this part of himself and he needs it to survive, at the same time he cannot destroy his creation. He needs a way to save his creation and get Foul back where he belongs. So in the end it will be about the creator excepting foul back into himself. IMHO

[CovenantJr]

I can't see Foul wanting to break into our world. As I've implied elsewhere, I personally think it must be absolutely hellish for an entity that is accustomed to having the run of the universe (or galaxy, cosmos, whatever) to suddenly be crammed into one little world, and find himself confined and restricted by its rules. For all his power, Foul is currently limited by the nature of his prison. Can you imagine being stripped of three-dimensional colour vision and most of your capacity for rational thought, then trying to live in a shoebox? Not a very good analogy, but not entirely dissimilar to Foul's situation. A cosmic being, confined to a relatively tiny physical under strict limitations. So I find it highly unlikely that he would want to simply trade his cell for a different one.

[lurch]

...He just wants the embargo with Cuba to be ended, so he can smoke a really good cigar once in a while..without having to go Canada or mexico.............geez....MEL

[Fist and Faith]

CJ, I think Covenant's world is a much more attractive cell than the one he's in. He's already proven to himself (and us) that he can manipulate people into hurting themselves and those they love - and what could he possibly want more? OTOH, there's nothing stopping him in Covenant's world. No Earthpower, no lore-wise people like the Lords, no being of power like the Elohim, no Giants of Haruchai who can simply ignore him. The best opposition there is therapists - which don't stand much of a chance of stopping him.