Just finished Runes, and I can't say I am moved. I found a lot of it to be forced, or contrived, especially when comparing it to the other 6 novels.
Don't misunderstand, I will read them all as soon they come out, and I have to admit, Lord Foul's Bane left me "unsure". Fortunately, all but WGW were already out when I read LFB.
But still, I can't explain it exactly why, but ROTE is no LFB.
Sorry folks, I cannot say I am exactly ensnared.
Watch how unpopular I become with this post...
Moderator: dlbpharmd
Watch how unpopular I become with this post...
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
Sequels
What's the best movie sequel ever?
Godfather II
The worst?
Godfather III
I fear that the TC books might follow this path.
Oh one other thing, I just don't get how Linden was shut off from the "white gold", especially when she was not under the influence of Kevin's Dirt. Somewhere in the 2nd chronicles she was practically and using the white gold in her sleep (when she just grabbed TC's arm and directed the white gold) to heal one of the giants.
Now it's some door that she can't be guaranteed to open all the time.
eh
Godfather II
The worst?
Godfather III
I fear that the TC books might follow this path.
Oh one other thing, I just don't get how Linden was shut off from the "white gold", especially when she was not under the influence of Kevin's Dirt. Somewhere in the 2nd chronicles she was practically and using the white gold in her sleep (when she just grabbed TC's arm and directed the white gold) to heal one of the giants.
Now it's some door that she can't be guaranteed to open all the time.
eh
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
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ur-bane
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The Linden/white gold thing has been discussed in another thread...I'll try to find it for you.
But, to reiterate my view....
The difference is that her access to the white gold in the past was indirect. She accessed it through Covenant. The power was within him, she "possessed" him and used it. She did not need to call up the power herself.
So now her own struggle to unleash or control the white gold is legitimate.
I am sure we hope that she does the latter, not the former. But I think we may find that a difficult task for her.
Just like Covenant, she may need the "trigger" of another power to actually power-up the white gold. (In the past, her trigger wasCovenant.)
But, to reiterate my view....
The difference is that her access to the white gold in the past was indirect. She accessed it through Covenant. The power was within him, she "possessed" him and used it. She did not need to call up the power herself.
So now her own struggle to unleash or control the white gold is legitimate.
I am sure we hope that she does the latter, not the former. But I think we may find that a difficult task for her.
Just like Covenant, she may need the "trigger" of another power to actually power-up the white gold. (In the past, her trigger wasCovenant.)
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want
to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln
Excerpt from Animal Songs Never Written
"Hey, dad," croaked the vulture, "what are you eating?"
"Carrion, my wayward son."
"Will there be pieces when you are done?"
ah, but...
at the end of WGW she took the ring (without even having to touch it if i recall) just before findail could grasp it!
and then she used it to create the staff of law, something that would seem far more complex than TC's use of it for mostly, (or is it all?), destruction.
i don't buy the whole, the door is semi-closed, semi-hidden stuff. i have to admit, part this comes from my disappointment at the book.
at the end of WGW she took the ring (without even having to touch it if i recall) just before findail could grasp it!
and then she used it to create the staff of law, something that would seem far more complex than TC's use of it for mostly, (or is it all?), destruction.
i don't buy the whole, the door is semi-closed, semi-hidden stuff. i have to admit, part this comes from my disappointment at the book.
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
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ur-bane
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But again, think about it.
What trigger was there? What other power was present that could draw forth the wild magic?
Findail himself was "earthpower incarnate"
Vain was the epitome of ur-vile lore.
Linden didn't need to find a way to awaken the white wild magic gold, because the triggers were there.
What trigger was there? What other power was present that could draw forth the wild magic?
Findail himself was "earthpower incarnate"
Vain was the epitome of ur-vile lore.
Linden didn't need to find a way to awaken the white wild magic gold, because the triggers were there.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want
to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln
Excerpt from Animal Songs Never Written
"Hey, dad," croaked the vulture, "what are you eating?"
"Carrion, my wayward son."
"Will there be pieces when you are done?"
eh, we could debate it, but i'll stick by what was written over and over in the 2nd chronicles:
TC kept realizing that she had more right to it than he did. and to her it was purely second nature.
TC kept realizing that she had more right to it than he did. and to her it was purely second nature.
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
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ur-bane
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I am not disagreeing with your right to disagree.
No matter what is said, your feelings will remain the same.
I am simply trying to clarify a few things, that's all.
But even your referenced text is not enough IMHO.
That was Thomas Covenant's viewpoint, not Linden's.
TC did not know what Linden had to do to grasp the wild magic..to wrench it from him.
She did not forge the hammer, but merely lifted it to hit the nail.
It was only "second nature" to TC because of the ease with which she could grasp it from him, and because of the abilities given her by the health-sense.
She did not know how to use it without the fire already alive in TC.
No matter what is said, your feelings will remain the same.
I am simply trying to clarify a few things, that's all.
But even your referenced text is not enough IMHO.
That was Thomas Covenant's viewpoint, not Linden's.
TC did not know what Linden had to do to grasp the wild magic..to wrench it from him.
She did not forge the hammer, but merely lifted it to hit the nail.
It was only "second nature" to TC because of the ease with which she could grasp it from him, and because of the abilities given her by the health-sense.
She did not know how to use it without the fire already alive in TC.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want
to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln
Excerpt from Animal Songs Never Written
"Hey, dad," croaked the vulture, "what are you eating?"
"Carrion, my wayward son."
"Will there be pieces when you are done?"
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Worm of Despite
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Re: Sequels
I enjoyed Runes immensely, but I too fear that the Last Chronicles might be the Godfather III of the Covenant series. Regardless, I'm enthralled that there's new Covenant books out. I'm sure SRD will give us a fantastic set of books--but excellence approaching First and Second Chronicles? That is a hard feat.Sergio wrote:What's the best movie sequel ever?
Godfather II
The worst?
Godfather III
I fear that the TC books might follow this path.
"I support the destruction of the Think-Tank." - Avatar, August 2008
Hey, I liked Godfather III.....
About Linden and the white gold - one of the hindrances she has to deal with is Esmer. Whenever he's around, she can't use the wild magic. Another thing is, in Covenant had the white gold and Linden accessed it, it was still his, and so was the responsibility. Now that it's hers, the responsibility of its use is hers as well, and she's having trouble dealing with it. She has developed Covenant's natural fear of power.
About Linden and the white gold - one of the hindrances she has to deal with is Esmer. Whenever he's around, she can't use the wild magic. Another thing is, in Covenant had the white gold and Linden accessed it, it was still his, and so was the responsibility. Now that it's hers, the responsibility of its use is hers as well, and she's having trouble dealing with it. She has developed Covenant's natural fear of power.
as far as the esmer thing i get it...
but i, personaly, don't read it that way "wasn't her's etc."
in the first two chronicles, my interpretation was that his problem was being unable to use the ring (only lepers need apply). anyone else could. the moment he gave it to hile troy, hile troy knew exactly how to use it. and the same applied to linden.
again, this is all interpretation, and maybe some of what i am not buying is because i am not happy with the book (TROTE) itself. it just seems too "assembled" , not sure that's the word, without the depthness of the first 6 books.
when i read the first two books, SRD made it really clear to me how messed up TC was. as i have said in other posts, SRD could write 3 pages worth of thoughts involved in covenant lifting food to his mouth from a bowl.
but i digest...in books 1 thru 6, you knew, exactly how messed up TC was, and not only how broken he was, but how more broken he became as his actions costs others their lives, etc.
here's one of the first gripes i had with the new book. when KW falls, unknowingly but instantly linden uses the WG to save her and anele. and my thought was, that is perfectly natural for the chosen/sun-sage, someone with her health sense. it was always natural for her. i was excited to see how SRD would explain to me why someone so powerful could not just instantly seek out foul and bitch slap him back into nothingness. that is the beauty of his writing.
i just didn't buy the rest of the book.
again, "most" of this is all due to interpretaion an din the end how we each read his books.
so is anyone aware of expected dates for the release of the other three books?
but i, personaly, don't read it that way "wasn't her's etc."
in the first two chronicles, my interpretation was that his problem was being unable to use the ring (only lepers need apply). anyone else could. the moment he gave it to hile troy, hile troy knew exactly how to use it. and the same applied to linden.
again, this is all interpretation, and maybe some of what i am not buying is because i am not happy with the book (TROTE) itself. it just seems too "assembled" , not sure that's the word, without the depthness of the first 6 books.
when i read the first two books, SRD made it really clear to me how messed up TC was. as i have said in other posts, SRD could write 3 pages worth of thoughts involved in covenant lifting food to his mouth from a bowl.
but i digest...in books 1 thru 6, you knew, exactly how messed up TC was, and not only how broken he was, but how more broken he became as his actions costs others their lives, etc.
here's one of the first gripes i had with the new book. when KW falls, unknowingly but instantly linden uses the WG to save her and anele. and my thought was, that is perfectly natural for the chosen/sun-sage, someone with her health sense. it was always natural for her. i was excited to see how SRD would explain to me why someone so powerful could not just instantly seek out foul and bitch slap him back into nothingness. that is the beauty of his writing.
i just didn't buy the rest of the book.
again, "most" of this is all due to interpretaion an din the end how we each read his books.
so is anyone aware of expected dates for the release of the other three books?
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
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CovenantJr
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I've mentioned my thoughts on this before, and shall do so again now. Troy blasted off a quick flare of wild magic because he was anguished and desperate to save Elena. In LFB, Covenant annihilated Drool's unnatural storm with a flash of power because he was enraged at falling face first down a muddy hill - the last straw that snapped his patience. It seems to me that anyone can rip a quick burst from the ring if their emotions are rampaging.Sergio wrote:the moment he gave it to hile troy, hile troy knew exactly how to use it.
As regards the quality of Runes: I have to say it did grab me less than the others. It has occurred to me recently that it could possibly be something to do with SRD being (he has admitted) daunted by the work og his younger self. Perhaps trying too hard to keep up?
but one thing i do read is how desperate linden is to save her son, and how she realized that every day was one more day of torment he was suffering. so i believe she should have the same desperation.CovenantJr wrote:Troy blasted off a quick flare of wild magic because he was anguished and desperate to save Elena
i thought that levin's dirt would be her hinderance, but she was able to avoid it a few times, and in the end of the book figures out how to cure herself of its effects.
hey, let's see what happens in part II. you never know. maybe he just had to get the rust off his "covenent" mode?
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
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CovenantJr
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Agreed, but I think the kind of emotion that is required to activate the ring is something that isn't sustainable. It's a primal thing. Perhaps she hit that state when she first realised Jeremiah was gone, but she couldn't maintain that level of blind, reflexive panic.Sergio wrote:but one thing i do read is how desperate linden is to save her son, and how she realized that every day was one more day of torment he was suffering. so i believe she should have the same desperation.CovenantJr wrote:Troy blasted off a quick flare of wild magic because he was anguished and desperate to save Elena
Hmmm ... I liked Runes of the Earth. I thought it was well written. And, obviously, it was very pleasant returning to the setting and the peoples therein.
Anyways ...
Stephen Donaldson said in one of the interviews that he would probably blow it, and his writing career would end with a whimper. He also said writing the Last Chronicles was a terrifying prospect. (If he did not say these things, my apologies. That's my memory of it, though.)
Stephen Donaldson also said that if he did not try, he would most certainly fail. He would fail by default, since he did not try.
Were that the case, we could not hope for any further sojourns with Thomas Covenant and Linden Avery, or hope to ever again have a chance to immerse ourselves in the Land, or ever again experience the pleasantness of just being there once more, in the setting, seeing it all brought back.
I would argue that, even if the Final Chronicles end as a disaster, it would still be worth it for that chance to once again travel to the Land, to journey with the characters, and to hear the author espound on and expand on what he previously created (as he has done.)
What is happening in the books, for that matter, seems (to me) to echo the sentiment I just expressed. Linden knows she may well fail, but she is willing to at least try to succeed. She can't succeed if she does not try. As frightful and dangerous as they whole effort is, Linden is still doggedly, determinedly trying. So are her companions and friends.
Just like the author is IRL.
I salute Stephen Donaldson.
Anyways ...
Stephen Donaldson said in one of the interviews that he would probably blow it, and his writing career would end with a whimper. He also said writing the Last Chronicles was a terrifying prospect. (If he did not say these things, my apologies. That's my memory of it, though.)
Stephen Donaldson also said that if he did not try, he would most certainly fail. He would fail by default, since he did not try.
Were that the case, we could not hope for any further sojourns with Thomas Covenant and Linden Avery, or hope to ever again have a chance to immerse ourselves in the Land, or ever again experience the pleasantness of just being there once more, in the setting, seeing it all brought back.
I would argue that, even if the Final Chronicles end as a disaster, it would still be worth it for that chance to once again travel to the Land, to journey with the characters, and to hear the author espound on and expand on what he previously created (as he has done.)
What is happening in the books, for that matter, seems (to me) to echo the sentiment I just expressed. Linden knows she may well fail, but she is willing to at least try to succeed. She can't succeed if she does not try. As frightful and dangerous as they whole effort is, Linden is still doggedly, determinedly trying. So are her companions and friends.
Just like the author is IRL.
I salute Stephen Donaldson.
please don't misunderstand me, i love going back to the land. very few books have left such an impression on me.
hey, i'll say what i said earlier...LFB was so-so for me (granted upon further reflection i really like it), but remember one thing: i had up to the ILW already in print so immedeiatly read.
so who knows what will happen when i get to read the entire series (hopefully before i die).
anyone else have this fear? that they might die before SRD finishes?
hey, i'll say what i said earlier...LFB was so-so for me (granted upon further reflection i really like it), but remember one thing: i had up to the ILW already in print so immedeiatly read.
so who knows what will happen when i get to read the entire series (hopefully before i die).
anyone else have this fear? that they might die before SRD finishes?
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
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ur-bane
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And will it truly be a concern lying on your deathbed?
In the unfortunate event that you should be on the doorstep before the completion of the series, will that really be a priority at the time?
I would think that there would be other more pressing concerns.
But that's just me.
In the unfortunate event that you should be on the doorstep before the completion of the series, will that really be a priority at the time?
I would think that there would be other more pressing concerns.
But that's just me.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want
to test a man's character, give him power.
--Abraham Lincoln
Excerpt from Animal Songs Never Written
"Hey, dad," croaked the vulture, "what are you eating?"
"Carrion, my wayward son."
"Will there be pieces when you are done?"
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lurch
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Another Opportunity
,,Yet another "Runes didn't get me like Chron 1 and 2 did"
...A) After 20 some odd years I certainly hope that It didn't. Thats a lot of time for the author as well as yourself to ..." change".
...B) Rather than being perceived as Unpopular from my perspective, I thank you for ...Yet Another META- PHOR!" opportunity. Its great that the White Gold Ring has already become part of the discussion of this thread. Lindens difficulty with accessing the WGR " door" seems to be a problem for you. Runes didn't get you like the first 2 chrons did. Lindens difficulty with accessing the WGR " door" seems to be a problem for you. Runes didn't get you like the first 2 chrons did. Lindens difficulty with accessing the WGR " door" seems to be a problem for you.Runes didn't get you like the first 2 chrons did....okay, one more time incase you haven't got it yet: Lindens...difficulty..with..accessing...the WGR..." door" seems to be a ...problem ...for you. Runes didn't get you...like the first 2...chrons did.
If you get the Meta-Phor,then you can see that you are very much like the character Linden and thus the author has you quite in mind. You as the reader have to open your mind , suspend the disbelief, and go with the story. Even tho i found TC at first a despicable character, i still went with the flo because I realized there was more going on from the author. I was able to empathize. SRD was able to pull my emotions to the surface. Interest was maintained not by just the easy access to becoming ingratiated to the telling, but also because to do so was and remains challenging and rewarding. Lindens access to her " door" reminds me very much the same. Her access has alot to do with Passion and empathy, suspending disbelief in herself. As the reader, we are in the same situation. Its not the count of activity in Runes,,,its the depth of consequences and implications of each activity that counts....MEL
...A) After 20 some odd years I certainly hope that It didn't. Thats a lot of time for the author as well as yourself to ..." change".
...B) Rather than being perceived as Unpopular from my perspective, I thank you for ...Yet Another META- PHOR!" opportunity. Its great that the White Gold Ring has already become part of the discussion of this thread. Lindens difficulty with accessing the WGR " door" seems to be a problem for you. Runes didn't get you like the first 2 chrons did. Lindens difficulty with accessing the WGR " door" seems to be a problem for you. Runes didn't get you like the first 2 chrons did. Lindens difficulty with accessing the WGR " door" seems to be a problem for you.Runes didn't get you like the first 2 chrons did....okay, one more time incase you haven't got it yet: Lindens...difficulty..with..accessing...the WGR..." door" seems to be a ...problem ...for you. Runes didn't get you...like the first 2...chrons did.
If you get the Meta-Phor,then you can see that you are very much like the character Linden and thus the author has you quite in mind. You as the reader have to open your mind , suspend the disbelief, and go with the story. Even tho i found TC at first a despicable character, i still went with the flo because I realized there was more going on from the author. I was able to empathize. SRD was able to pull my emotions to the surface. Interest was maintained not by just the easy access to becoming ingratiated to the telling, but also because to do so was and remains challenging and rewarding. Lindens access to her " door" reminds me very much the same. Her access has alot to do with Passion and empathy, suspending disbelief in herself. As the reader, we are in the same situation. Its not the count of activity in Runes,,,its the depth of consequences and implications of each activity that counts....MEL