Beatles Discussion (Split from Runes forum)

[yoursovain]

As for Sgt Peppers as masterpiece - scrambled old Brit dancehall tunes with lightweight overly obvious pychedelia does not a masterpiece make, IMHO! Though the songwriting of lennon/mccartney makes it wonderful like most of what they penned. See LA's Love masterpiece 'Forever Changes' for some real ass-kicking ambition - or perhaps Hendix's 'Electric Ladyland' or on the real edge - Miles Davis' 'Bitches Brew'.

In short - in some cases ambition and strength of emotion can be evaluated above personal tastes - whether people enjoy the result or not.

[Sheriff Lytton]

As for Sgt Peppers as masterpiece - scrambled old Brit dancehall tunes with lightweight overly obvious pychedelia does not a masterpiece make, IMHO!

Well, said. I think "Revolver" was the masterpiece. However, "A Day in the Life" is one of the finest 5 minutes of music ever recorded - it's just a shame they had to put it on an album with rubbish like "Lovely Rita Meter Maid" and "For the Benefit of Mr. Kite".

[yoursovain]

Sherrif Lytton: I'm right with you on the genius of Revolver and the standout wonder of 'day in the life' on Sgt Peppers. I would also rank above Sgt Peppers: the fragmented but brilliant 'white' album and the equally inventive but more soulful and less contrived Abbey Road.

[Variol Farseer]

George Martin wanted the Beatles to prune back the White Album to about the best 15 tracks, but their competing egos wouldn't allow it. (John insisted on keeping 'Revolution 9', and if he wouldn't cut that piece of utter tosh, none of the others were going to cut any of their songs.)

If they had done that, the White Album, IMO, would have been the all-time champ.

[yoursovain]

Variol - I agree but the question is, which 15?

I know this isn't a music discussion, but I couldn't resist:

in no final order:

1. Back in USSR
2. Dear Prudence
3. While My guitar Gently Weeps
4. Happiness is a Warm Gun
5. Martha My Dear
6. I'm so Tired
7. Blackbird
8. Rocky Racoon
9. Julia
10. Birthday
11. Yer Blues
12. Mother Nature's Son
13. Helter Skelter
14. Revolution #1
15. Cry Baby Cry

[Sergio]

Sgt Peppers (best album = art)

Revolver (best "look we can totally change our writing style and not write just pop-music and still write incredible ever-lasting, psycholdelic blow your mind music " album)

White Album (best "look even when we hate each other and barely talk to each other, look what we can do" album)

Abbey Road (best "also flowing like Sgt. Peppers, but rather than themed, it's just an amazing great "rock" album and it should have been released after Let It Be so this would be our real last album" album)

Let It Be just a sidenote to say that Let It Be...Naked was amazing and actually sent shivers up my spine and gave me a whole new appreciation for an album that never really did it for me before

Oh, and by the way, for you real Beatle fans, the worlds BEST site is www.beatles-discography.com, you can spend hours there going over the albums, individual songs, etc. It's amazing!

[yoursovain]

Sergio - maybe that's it - I'm not a 'real' beatle fan - I am obsessed with music in general, so I respect them as the pop genii they are and have played them to death but I don't even like (much) any of their albums before rubber soul and wasn't really impressed until Revolver and then not again really until Abbey Road (day in the life excepted). I prefer The Who, Cream, Hendrix, Tim Buckley, Neil Young, Love to name a few (late) contemporaries. In short, less tidy and more miserable - like old TC!

My kinda thing recently is modern stuff like a lot of alt country (bright eyes, iron & wine, M Ward, calexico), prog(ish).brit (radiohead, doves, elbow) and American psychedlic-rock (flaming lips, grandaddy, mercury rev) and most amazingly the Cnuts: Arcade Fire, their 'funeral' is a masterpiece IMHO. Eclectic, complex, intense - that's why I obsess about the work of our Mr SRD!

Q: I wonder what fantasy writer the beatles would be? Is Tolkein a stretch? Perhaps CS Lewis (Narnia chrons)? I know it certainly wouldn't be SRD!

[Sergio]

well we know what kind of a fantasy writre Led Zep would be

[Roynish]

well we know what kind of a fantasy writre Led Zep would be

Well there is of course Stairway To Heaven and The Battle Of Evermore and Misty Mountain Hop. But also The Rover, In my Time Of Dying, Achilles Last Stand, Whole Lotta Love and numerous other odes to Plants member. Blues inflected tunes about lonliness and despair, Tea For One.

So what sort of fantasy writer would they be. A sex starved maniac with a very infrequent Tolkien fetish. Who knows.

[dennisrwood]

well George Harrison had 'Something" during the WHite Album sessions...so here goes...

1) Dear Prudence
2) While My Guitar Gently Weeps
3) Blackbird
4) Everybody's Got Something To Hide...
5) Don't Pass Me By
6) Helter Skelter
---------------------------------------------------
1) Cry Baby Cry
2) Happiness Is A Warm Gun
3) Long, Long, Long
4) Yer Blues
5) I'm So Tired
6) Something

[Fist and Faith]

I heard Paul talking once. He said something like, "People say 'the White Album was to much this' or 'not enough that.' But come on, it's the bloody Beatles White Album!" I agree!

John once said that they had no "cyclic" intentions in mind when they wrote Sgt. Peppers, and he doesn't understand why people often talk about it in those terms. Of course, whether it's considered a work of genius or not (and, for that, we should also consider the time it was written), I think sometimes people's minds are "attuned" to each other, making amazing things happen unintentionally. Bill Evans said that kind of thing took place during the performance that became the Bill Evans Trio's Waltz for Debbie and Sunday at the Village Vanguard albums. He called it "simultaneous improvisation."

My favorite Beatles is Abbey Road. I mean, come one! Something, Come Together, You Never Give Me Your Money, Oh Darling, Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End... DAMN! But I suppose the White Album and Let It Be are just as extraordinary.

[Worm of Despite]

As for Sgt Peppers as masterpiece - scrambled old Brit dancehall tunes with lightweight overly obvious pychedelia does not a masterpiece make, IMHO!

Well, said. I think "Revolver" was the masterpiece. However, "A Day in the Life" is one of the finest 5 minutes of music ever recorded - it's just a shame they had to put it on an album with rubbish like "Lovely Rita Meter Maid" and "For the Benefit of Mr. Kite".

Concentrating on just the bad parts, eh? I personally listen to the filler on Pepper's and find it quite creative, whereas Revolver's filler ("Doctor Robert" and "And Your Bird Can Sing") strikes me as unimaginative.

I heard Paul talking once. He said something like, "People say 'the White Album was to much this' or 'not enough that.' But come on, it's the bloody Beatles White Album!" I agree!

My favorite Beatles is Abbey Road. I mean, come one! Something, Come Together, You Never Give Me Your Money, Oh Darling, Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End... DAMN! But I suppose the White Album and Let It Be are just as extraordinary.

I agree, except with saying Let It Be approached the focused genius of Abbey Road.

[dennisrwood]

missed one...so this...

1) Dear Prudence
2) While My Guitar Gently Weeps
3) Blackbird
4) Everybody's Got Something To Hide...
5) Don't Pass Me By
6) Helter Skelter
---------------------------------------------------
1) Cry Baby Cry
2) Happiness Is A Warm Gun
3) Long, Long, Long
4) Yer Blues
5) I'm So Tired
6) Something

becomes this...

1) Dear Prudence
2) While My Guitar Gently Weeps
3) Blackbird
4) Everybody's Got Something To Hide...
5) Don't Pass Me By
6) Helter Skelter
------------------------------------------------
1) Cry Baby Cry
2) Why Don't We Do It In the Road
3) Happiness Is A Warm Gun
4) Long, Long, Long
5) Yer Blues
6) I'm So Tired
7) Something

and I would have made them finish the songs. several could benefit from extension (I'm So Tired, Long, Why Don't...) they needed to detox and focus.

[Worm of Despite]

Bleh. Taking "Something" from Abbey Road would be a detriment to it.

Personally, I really like that the White Album is so sprawling and has all that stuff on it. There's usually something on there for every mood I'm in. I thought it being a double album was a nice variation after the single albums, and I'm especially glad they didn't go into it thinking "Okay, we have to top Sgt. Pepper's". That would've been a disaster.

I also don't think the songs needed any lengthening. I think the Beatles did the smart thing, got their message/the point of the song across, and didn't extend it needlessly beyond that. I love "Why don't we do it in the road", but I can't stomach it going for four or five minutes.

[dennisrwood]

well harrison practiced Something during the White album. it's much more deserving than Savoy Truffle or Piggies. and I'm not saying that the Beatles should have prgged the songs, but fully realized them. and crap like Wild Honey Pie should be dumped to focus the album.

[Fist and Faith]

I agree, except with saying Let It Be approached the focused genius of Abbey Road.

We may be thinking of the word focused exactly the same way, even though I can't define what I mean at the moment, because I agree. Let It Be is incredible in its own way, however. I mean, wow, look at that songlist:
Two Of Us
Dig A Pony
Across The Universe
I Me Mine
Dig It
Let It Be
Maggie Mae
I've Got A Feeling
One After 909
The Long And Winding Road
For You Blue
Get Back

Taken as individual songs, LIB (we like to abbreviate at the Watch, right?:)) is as good as any album by anybody. Heck, it does that with just Across the Universe, Let It Be, and The Long and Winding Road, and Get Back.


And could you tell I was half asleep when I posted? Half way to work, I felt like a piano dropped on my head when I realized I didn't but the obvious Here Comes the Sun, and the beautiful Because on the list.


And since I so often disagree with you, dennis, I will again. (I need consistency somewhere in my life, eh?:)) Your proposed final version of the White Album is as horrifying to me as anything I've seen in a Long, Long, Long time. Holy cow, the glories and the fun you would deny the world!

[Worm of Despite]

We may be thinking of the word focused exactly the same way, even though I can't define what I mean at the moment, because I agree. Let It Be is incredible in its own way, however.

I don't think even John and Company knew what Let It Be was. Was it getting back to their roots, an album documenting their breakup, a soundtrack to a documentary, or just another in-the-studio-album with snippets here and there to make it sound more live and earthy? Eh, maybe all of it, to some extent. It was quite a chaotic time for the Beatles.

But yeah, I agree. In its own way, Let It Be is incredible. The Beatles with their pants down (as Lennon said), but they still sounded great and fun and rocking.

[Fist and Faith]

Oh hell, if one of them happened to get his feet tangled in the electrical wires, fell onto another one, whose head went through the logo on the drum, while the fourth tipped over backwards in his chair while trying to back away from the chaos, I'd shake my head in wonder at the genius of it.

Man...
The Beatles!!!

[dennisrwood]

Fist: my White Album would have confused the record buying public even more as I have dropped the 'oh-so-cute' McCartney pap. I want avante garde, and not that crap Revolution 9.