Ravers of the Lost Ark

[Lord Mhoram]

I have a few questions regarding Ravers. Are they bound to Foul like the Nazgul are to the One Ring, or are they more independent? Is samadhi dead? Are turiya and moksha alive? If so, what will they do to a Land w/out Lords, TC, and LA?

[CovenantJr]

The Ravers are not Foul's creations, so I would imagine there is no intrinsic bond. It was never made entirely clear what did cause the Ravers to serve (or at least co-operate with) LF.

[Coercri]

I think this quote may answer some of your questions:

"... Despite was the bane of men. It came with them into the Land from the cold anguish of the north, and from the hungry kingdom of the south. No, the Colossus of the Fall forbade another foe - three tree - and soil-hating brothers who were old in the Spoiled Plains before Lord Foul first cast his shadow there. They were triplets, the spawn of one birth from the womb of their long-forgotten mother, and their names were samadhi, moksha, and turiya. They hated the Earth and all its growing things, just as Lord Foul hates all life and love. When the Colossus eased its interdict, they came to the Upper Land, and in their lust for ravage and dismay fell swiftly under the mastery of the Despiser..."

-TIIW "May Be Lost"

Coercri

[amanibhavam]

well, ultimately they had to be the creation of Foul, hadn't they? for it was Foul who placed flaws and faults into the Creation of his Brother when He made the Earth, so all evil on Earth should be the "product" of Foul, unless there is a big flaw in SRD's mythology
the above quoted passage tells me that the Ravers were not created by Foul after he was imprisoned inside the Arch, but had existed beforehand

[Lord Mhoram]

Yes, and no doubt he supported them in their quest to destroy nature. He probably offered them power and and a way out of the Arch. But what about them NOW in a post-Sunbane Land?

[fightingmyinstincts]

They served him just 'cause they're weaker...but TriockRaver kinda hinted that he'd like TC's ring, and then he would have deposed LF...sorta like that explanation Galadriel gave when offered the ring, "I would set upon the throne a Dark Queen", I paraphrase, but you get the point. IF any one of the ravers ever got justa scrap more power than Foul or his brothers, there'd a been a colossal fight between dark powers, no?

[danlo]

From the story of the Wounded Rainbow, LFB pg 185-6, it appears, according 2 Saltheart, that the Creator's original children (angels? whatever..) became the stars of the Land:

and, behold! A rainbow spread its arms across the universe."
"For a moment, the Creator was glad. But then he looked more closely at the rainbow--and there, high in the shimmering span, he saw a wound, a breach in the beauty he made. He did not know that his Enemy, the demon spirit of murk and mire that crawled through the bowels of his universe, had seen him at work, and had cast spite into the mortar of his creating. So now, as the rainbow stood across the heavens, it was marred.
"In vexation, the Creator returned to his works, to find a cure for his creation. But while he labored, his myriad bright children, found the rainbow, and were filled with rejoicing at its beauty. Together, they climbed into the heavens and scampered happily up the bow, dancing gay dances across its colors. High on the span they discovered the wound. But they did not understand it. Chorusing joy, they danced through the wound, and found themselves in our sky. This new unlighted world only gladdened them the more, and they spun through the sky until it sparkled with the glee of play.
"When they tired of this sport, they sought to return to their universe of light. But their door was shut. For the Creator had discovered his Enemy's handiwork-the cause of the wound--and in his anger his mind had been clouded. Thoughtless, he had torn the rainbow from the heavens. Not until his anger was done did he realize that he had trapped his children in our sky. And there they remain, stars to guide the sojourners of our nights, until the Creator can rid his universe of his Enemy, and find a way to bring his children home."

Of course this is from the Giant's pov but why not apply this to all of the earth and Land--perhaps the Elohim are some of his children who danced thru and slid down the other side? Perhaps they are children who managed to rip themselves from the sky--perhaps they too are aliens. About Ravers--that is a mighty tuff ?, perhaps they were the initial banes Foul (the Enemy) put in the Creator's caldrons.

[caamora]

"....Despite was the bane of men. It came with them to the Land..."

I'm confused. Does "Despite" mean the Despiser was the bane of men and came with them to the Land or does it mean "despite" was made by men and they brought it to the Land?

And I found the part about the long-forgotten mother interesting!

[Lord Mhoram]

First, Despite is another name for evil in the Chronicles. And, I think it was the Despiser himself who brought Despite to the Earth, but when it says the bane of men, I think it means that even though the Despiser brought Despite, men were corrupted by it, too.

[amanibhavam]

"....Despite was the bane of men. It came with them to the Land..."

I'm confused. Does "Despite" mean the Despiser was the bane of men and came with them to the Land or does it mean "despite" was made by men and they brought it to the Land?

And I found the part about the long-forgotten mother interesting!

the first one, imho. basically it means that of all the different creatures inhabiting that Earth Lord Foul is mainly interested in men, his ultimate goal is (well, aside of breaking the Arch) to corrupt and conquer them

I think this is an attempt from SRD to explain why Lord Foul's activities are limited to the Land when he has all the world at hand

[CovenantJr]

The way I interpret it is: Despite (meaning LF) was essentially focused on the humans above anything else, and the humans were originally from outside the Land (perhaps another continent/country, in the manner of Brathairealm). LF only came to the Land because he was following the humans - he has no interest in the Land itself, he's just after mankind...

IMO, anyway...

[Skyweir]

I see it similarly .. LF brought despite when he came to the Creator's earth .. I wonder though about LF's influence beyond the Land ... his base has always been in the Land .. but as he is not always a solid enitity no doubt his influence can spread further afield .. We just havent seen his involvement in Lands beyond the Land ..

I dont know whether this is a failing on SRD's part to create an 'earth' and isolate the main body of the narrative to one small part of it .. then introduce the reader to a wider world .. and provide insufficient explanation as to why not more of the 'earth' is used in the plot of LF ..

Presumably LF has existed within this 'earth' for many a millenia .. sufficient time one would think to have traversed the length and breadth of this the Creator's world .. maybe LF has .. but remains primarily on the Land where he can reap most damage .. or as Tohrm says .. focus on humankind ..

But if this was so humankind existed beyond the Land .. as someone else has already stated .. the Braithairealm (sp?) .. maybe the evil dude there was a stooge of LF's .. he was an ill .. afterall .. and if the Despiser brought despite with him into the Land .. then presumably the Gadhi was infected with it at some point ..

But LF has to have his base somewhere .. and so be it .. he has chosen the Land .. to place to make his homes : Fouls Creche .. Kiril Threndor ..

[danlo]

Kayseryn's succumbus and the black, or dark place Chant and other Elohim have been xposed 2 raise some questions as 2 Foul's pull in other areas of the earth...hmmmm

[Guest]

Yes...I too noticed some evidence of Foul's handiwork abroad... It's an interesting concept that all the earth's ill's come from Foul, including the Kemper's succubus creature...

I'm convinced that the Land was originally human-free, and that LF made the Land his 'base of operations' because that's where the humans moved to millennia ago. I don't think all humans came from Brathairealm, I was merely citing that as an example of humans (or creatures much like them - are the Brathair human?) living outside the Land... I'm inclined to think of the Land as originally being just a huge forest, plains etc (but also including the Ravers, waging their war on nature) - then humans moved in, as humans will...and LF pursued. Humans settled in the Land, so LF also settled there...

[CovenantJr]

Me above...

[Skyweir]

in truth the Land is yet a mystery to us .. we know naught of the origins of the species of inhabitants of the Land .. nor of their migrations and/or their settlements .. undoubtedly their is yet a great deal of the Creator's 'earth' .. to be introduced to us .. who knows .. maybe in the 3rd chrons .. we will visit other lands and meet other beings ..

[saltheart foamfollower]

this is a realy good subject
my theory is that the ravers--even though they are w/ LF, are greedy.
even though they are with Lf, they will betray him every chance they can to get the ring.
therefor they are servants of the despiser though they arent very trustworthy
every raver for themselves!!!

[Lord Mhoram]

Yes Foamfollower, I agree w/you. The Ravers would definitely betray LF or eachother if they got something in it for themselves. I have just found out that samdhi Raver was the reason the King in the legend of Berek Halfhand went corrupt. Everyone probably already knows that, but I just found out.

[Guest]

the king? whos that my mind is blank at the moment..
by the way this is saltheart foamfollower

[Skyweir]

I think Morham is referring to the High Lord .. his craziness .. Kevin Landwaster .. or Crazy Kev as he best known ..

unless there be something other being alluded to here .. ..