Is the "real" world OUR world?

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:18 am

I seem to remember that the language of the Old Lords was somewhat different than those of the New.

It would obviously be trivial to have a communication problem.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:46 am

I think SRD wants us to think it's our world, so that we can more closely feel what Covenant is going through. We wouldn't understand the struggles of a Martian that went to the Land, because we wouldn't understand the Martian's point of reference. The more unlike our Earth, the less we understand the struggles; and the more like our Earth, the better we understand. And nothing is more like our Earth than our Earth.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:51 am

2 and 2 is the count, one man on two outs; here is the pitch; CRACK! FnF got all of that one; its going, going, gone. Home run. You said it all.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:02 am

Kinslaughterer:

I seem to remember that the language of the Old Lords was somewhat different than those of the New.

It would obviously be trivial to have a communication problem.

That's what I understood as well... kind of makes you wonder just
how long after the Ritual of Desecration the Land became habitable
again.

Skyweir:

I've never had a problem with the fact the inhabitants of the Land have no problem communicating with TC and visa versa .. if the Creator was the medium in his translation to The Land .. I guess he would enable his ability to communicate with the inhabitants that he could fulfill his designed purpose there ..

and it would be utterly boring to read ..

then a chapter where TC learns to communicate with the knights that say "Ni" .. and another chapter dedicated to his aquisition of the Language of the Giants etc etc...

its interesting that within one world .. all inhabitants have no difficulty communicating with one another .. even those from different races .. except for the urviles .. i think they spoke a different language all together ..

*shrugs* ..

Not true. The ur-viles and Waynhim appeared to speak the same
language, but the Giants had a separate language from the people
of the Land ... and Landspeak was NOT the same as the Bhrathair's
native tongue.

The jheherrin had spoken Landspeak, but the sur-jheherrin had
evolved their own language.

Covenant was just fortunate that he arrived in a place where he
could understand the language ... if he had arrived among
uneducated Bhrathair he might have been Sandgorgon bait.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:50 am

Well, I'm kinda tired and I thought I knew where the Utah reference is...but I don't-prehaps it just popped in2 my head, somehow, or it was part of the 3rd Chrons read SRD did...mayb not. IN ANY CASE a real state in the US is repeated a # of times: that being Louisiana where the leprosarium was located. I was skimming the beginning of The Wounded Land. But doesn't Covenant tell a story somewhere in LFB about the "hemit-like" leper who lived in West Virginia, I believe...

4 some reason I thought Joan's parents lived in Utah, I don't kno why...If it took Joan 4 weeks 2 walk from her parents 2 Haven Farm then it's probably not likely they lived in Utah...

Post by **Treble** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:21 am

That's just the arrogant English talking there. There is no conceiveable way more people in India speak English rather than Hindi.

Um...no it isn't arrogance. English became the official language of India when the British colonised it. I have no real idea why India still assumes English as their national language, but maybe because the number of dialects spoken is almost innumerable in India.
We used to have two members of our workforce who were Indian, came from two towns only about 40 miles from one-another, yet spoke utterly different dialects. No matter what, the Indian nation will have chosen to keep English as the national language, and it'll be nothing to do with us.

And I wouldn't go throwing around accusations about which nations are arrogant, if I were you. Many people (although not myself, I hasten to add) consider a certain superpower extremely arrogant as a nation, and that's not a fair assessment, is it....?

Anyway, let's not fight
But be careful who you upset on forums, matey. The internet isn't US-only, you know

Post by **Skyweir** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:54 am

exellently said treble!

it would seem that the temptation to be nit-picky is maybe a sign of severe straw grasping

lol ..

we can do better here

and dont feel bad danlo .. cos when you said the Utah comment .. you are right .. i too recalled something i read somewhere about a US state .. it sounded familiar to me too

but wouldnt know off hand where to find it

and cant be bothered to go in search of it at the moment ..

why do something today that can be put off to another day .. i always say

Post by **danlo** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:20 pm

Sky: read my post! Louisiana & West Virginia r definately mentioned!

(in any case!!!

)

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:06 pm

Everyone just relax and listen. I was basing my comment on the fact that Treble illustrates: English became the official language of India upon colonization by the English. You know the "white man's burden" and that sort of thing certainly seems arrogant. That no longer exists; I should have made that clear.

The dialect problem is also a result of the colonial English however. They forced a enormous number of differing cultures into an a single nation.

If you want to knock the US, you came to the right place.It is a fair assessment. The US was and is a massive combination of lies, misinformation, and benefit of the wealthy. Nearly everything the nation was founded upon is a farce. But there is still hope here. We live very well in general, perhaps at the cost of others though.

See what you've done? Now I've upset the other Americans. Don't worry I never make accusations I can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt with sources. I apologize to you all, I am very sorry

Post by **Treble** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:44 pm

No need to apologise, although (were you British) I'd assume you were being ironic, anyway

Thanks for clearing that up in your lucid post. Indeed, the crimes of the past occasionally come back to haunt us, but no nation should be tied to a burden of guilt. To keep in the spirit of the foums: all actions should be judged on present worth, not past misdemeanours

As for upsetting other Americans on the site, well, it never harms a nation to be self-aware. I'm sure all the board members here are mature enough to recognise their nation's faults, wherever they come from, and admitting your country is less than perfect is a step towards making it a better place. Sorry if that sounds a bit cheesy

You'll get no discrimiation from me about the US. As I say, no nation is perfect, but I have nothing but utmost respect for the US people, who I constantly find to be pleasant, friendly and intelligent.

As for the debate at hand, I always assumed that the specifics of both worlds were kept blurred deliberately. As the story is supposed to be pan-universal, it has to have touchstones people will recognise (familar US setting, a Land where general principles - both physical and metaphysical - are altered enough to be unique), but without being too specific. Covenant is supposed to be of the world yet apart from it, so this approach seems totally in keeping with SRD's concept.

That said, it could be a parallel universe to ours....hmm....
:s

Post by **caamora** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:03 pm

Danlo, I second what Sky said: don't worry about the Utah thing. I'm so bad I can't even remember where the leprasarium was located!

Ok, ok, bad thread. I need to re-re-read the books again!

Sorry!

Post by **danlo** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:32 pm

caamora! read my post!

I said the leprosarium IS located in Louisiana!!! Nobody sees that apparently! Do u guys think I'm just making it up as I go????!!! Will u not xcept anything w/o proof? Well other than the fact that throughout the series SRD mentions Louisiana over 6 times, here's your proof:

Fourtyeight hours after his surgery, Covenant's surgeon prononounced him ready to travel, and sent him to the leprosarium in Louisiana.-page 13 You Cannot Hope-LFB

and here's West Virginia on the next page:

"I want you to meet another one of our patients. He's the only other primary case we have here at present. He used to be a sort or hermit--lived alone away from everyone in the West Virginian mountians."

I'm not worried, and I kno what I'm talking about. Now if u people would read my damm posts instead of trying 2 console me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I'm joking btw...JOKING!!!

)

Post by **caamora** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:49 pm

Well, just as I didn't catch the Louisiana thing, I also didn't catch any reference in the books to Utah either! That shows you how observant I am!

Btw and completely unrelated, my new cell phone plays the Monty Python theme as its ring. I thought you might chuckle at that, Danlo, since I know you like MP.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:19 pm

No mayb I'm wrong about Utah--but Louisiana & West Virginia offer more evidence 4 the "Yes it is our world theory".

On second thought, let's not go to Camelot...it is a silly place...

Post by **[Syl]** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:14 pm

Ah, but I still say it isn't our world, because our world doesn't have a guy named Thomas Covenant with leprosy in it... as far as I know, doesn't have people traipsing off to other worlds, some weird cult burning their hands in the fire, and some demonish type guy speaking through said fire.

It is, however, a world remarkably like our own.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:28 pm

True enough Syl, it is not our world. And no work of fiction can be set in our world, since the fictional elements never happened in our world. Only non-fiction works, with every detail being exactly, perfectly accurate, can be said to be set in our world.

Is that what you had in mind?

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 10:42 pm

Maybe somebody should call the Department of Defense and ask for Hile Troy?

Post by **danlo** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:02 pm

as far as u kno Syl--but I'd ask Turiya about that!

Yes it's a fictional work--it's Fantasy. This thread is crazy! (out!)

Post by **caamora** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:51 am

Well, if you guys are going to be that way about it!

Btw, what kind of name is Hile Troy? Has anyone ever known someone named "Hile"?

Post by **Reisheiruhime** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:22 am

I actually do know someone named Hile. He usually has his nose in a book about some horrible war or something. He's one of my gang. Heh.

Syl, there have been many strange happenings here, and somewhere in North Dakota (Don't ask, you don't want to know), and there have been quite a few claims of the fire speaking to ***** when it was fed blood, but then again, my sources aren't too reliable.

(Memo to self: get new sources)

Danlo, I thank you for believing me.

And of course it's fictional. I seriously doubt that it could be real, but still.... You've gotta keep an open mind.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Is the "real" world OUR world?