The Power of Command

Post by **Infelice** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:50 pm

Do the Forestaal venture out from the confines of their particular forest??

But you raise a good point and got me to thinking about what would happen if one of the Elohim were to drink?? ...or .....What would happen if you commanded one of the Elohim to drink?????

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:27 pm

Infelice:

Do the Forestaal venture out from the confines of their particular forest??

But you raise a good point and got me to thinking about what would happen if one of the Elohim were to drink?? ...or .....What would happen if you commanded one of the Elohim to drink?????

I don't think anything would happen.

I mean, I don't think the Earthblood would increase the Elohim's
power or give them any more ability than they already had.

They're Earthpower incarnate.

Remember, it wasn't said that the Elohim COULDN'T cure Covenant
of his leporsy or venom ... they just choose not to do so. We never
saw a limit to the Elohim's power ... it's just they had knowledge that
prevented them from using it in the ways that Linden would have
liked.

Post by **Infelice** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:35 pm

Actually you are quite right there KaosArcana....We are quite a wilful bunch and are reluctant to get our fingers dirty when it comes to granting favours and such.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:40 pm

It seems that we are unable to come up a single useful command without baleful consequences. Maybe we should just wish for baked goods of some sort like pie, cheesecake, or brownies and let the consequences be damned!

Post by **Reisheiruhime** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:47 pm

I like your thinking!

Hehe, I wonder if you could Command a Forestal to have more power or knowledge. Hmmm.....

Or maybe you could command the merwives to do something. I mean, they have power, and they might be able to delude the enemy.

Heh, just an Idea.

Post by **[Syl]** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:31 am

A forestal is sovreign in his domain. None but the possible exceptions of Foul, the Elohim, or the White Gold Wielder are more powerful, nor could the Earthblood grant anything more.

A forestal can leave his or her forest (like Caer Caveral did), but it is a sad thing.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:50 am

Boy, what with the Forestals and Elohim in this
thread I'm starting to wish I still had my white
gold college class ring!

Post by **Han-shan** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:03 am

Though it is another interesting thought, I was not thinking of the logistics of a Forestal drinking the EarthBlood. I was just wondering "what if?" But the EarthBlood is strong, and I'm sure a way could be found to transport it to a Forest before it lost its potency. Or perhaps someone could Command a Forestal to appear at the source of the EarthBlood. (Not me! We've been warned!

)

Post by **caamora** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:27 am

I think Elena's mistake (not her only one!) was that she thought that Foul could be destroyed. Forget that she broke the Law of Death and summoned Kevin, who was destined to despair for eternity, but she forgot, or ignored, the fact that Foul was created before time and therefore, immortal! You cannot kill something that is immortal! Even Covenant knew that Foul could not be destroyed - just defeated for a time.

I think the only person worthy or able to drink Earthblood would be Mhoram. Then again, he was wise enough to know the dangers of power - being so powerful himself!

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:51 am

Kinslaughterer wrote:It seems that we are unable to come up a single useful command without baleful consequences. Maybe we should just wish for baked goods of some sort like pie, cheesecake, or brownies and let the consequences be damned!

thats the point!! lol .. every command would reap a consequence of some sort .. apart from baked goods which would likely have a limited impact on the Land ..

Note: I dont think the Elohim are a direct part of the creation .. from legend do they not originate from beyond the 'earth' .. arent they something quite different from the other races of the Land .. ?? I seem to remember stars that were trapped in the earth ..

but i am stretching now .. as the details allude my

umm memory .. lol ..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:16 pm

Hello, everyone. If I had the Power of Command before me, I would have commanded Foul's Creche itself to crumble into dust. Lord Foul himself may be untouchable but his abode is still mere, mortal rock. In destroying his home, I'm also destroying Foul's breeding dens, where his enormous armies are produced. Foul would have to relocate his headquarters and start all over. Of course Foul still has the Illearth Stone, but how could he use it to halt my Command or prevent his fortress from collapsing around him? Or is Foul so mighty with the Stone that he could simply overrule the Power of Command? Remember, I'm only attacking Foul's environment, not Foul himself. With his breeding dens wiped off the face of the earth, it would take a while for Lord Foul to rebuild his armies, and that would in turn provide precious time for the defenders of the Land. I think this would be using the Power of Command in a limited but effective way. The downside? I don't know, I'm no "seer and oracle." But it works for me!

Post by **[Syl]** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:52 pm

Not a bad idea at all. I mean, if the Lords would've had a few hundred tomahawks to launch at Foul's Creche, I don't think they would've hesitated much to use them. The question is, is simple destruction its own consequence? I too lack the wisdom to know for sure.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:24 pm

caamora wrote:I think Elena's mistake (not her only one!) was that she thought that Foul could be destroyed. Forget that she broke the Law of Death and summoned Kevin, who was destined to despair for eternity, but she forgot, or ignored, the fact that Foul was created before time and therefore, immortal! You cannot kill something that is immortal! Even Covenant knew that Foul could not be destroyed - just defeated for a time.

"not her only one!" indeed! I've already discussed (in Dissecting the Land) the stupidity and arrogance of Elena's decision to drink the EarthBlood, and this is, indeed, another problem of hers. (Although this one is shared by ALL the dead High Lords who screamed for Covenant to kill Foul at the end of TPTP.) Still, she was told what the Power of Command was capable of, but that even it had no power over Foul. She knew that the Ritual of Desecration, another extraordinary power, could not kill Foul. She knew of Foul's origin. Yet she somehow thinks that Foul should be worried about her desire to destroy him, and thinks that Kevin's poor, tortured soul can do the deed.

A couple of BIG topics for which Elena had GOOD evidence that her view was wrong, and she just goes ahead anyway! (Have I mentioned I'm not a big fan of Elena's?)

Post by **caamora** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:32 pm

Well said, F&F! As it says in the book, Elena was flawed from birth. I suppose we could only expect her to make poor decisions.

However, since WE can see this, why didn't the lords of the council? Why was she still elected as High Lord? If the answer is, "it was her time" or "it was meant to be" then the lords could not form their own destiny - the future is already mapped out.

I digress.....

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:51 pm

Fist:

"not her only one!" indeed! I've already discussed (in Dissecting the Land) the stupidity and arrogance of Elena's decision to drink the EarthBlood, and this is, indeed, another problem of hers. (Although this one is shared by ALL the dead High Lords who screamed for Covenant to kill Foul at the end of TPTP.) Still, she was told what the Power of Command was capable of, but that even it had no power over Foul. She knew that the Ritual of Desecration, another extraordinary power, could not kill Foul. She knew of Foul's origin. Yet she somehow thinks that Foul should be worried about her desire to destroy him, and thinks that Kevin's poor, tortured soul can do the deed.

I still don't think that Foul is necessarily unkillable ... especially by the
wild magic. Even Covenant himself seems to be ambivalent about that
from time to time. He blamed himself for the Sunbane because he
deliberately witheld the killing blow against Foul ... if he didn't think
he could have killed Foul if he tried, why should he have felt guilty?

Post by **caamora** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:09 pm

Actually, I believe that at the end of WGW, TC says to Linden that Foul can never be killed - just defeated, or weakened. But, of course, that is about 4000 years in the future from TIW!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:20 pm

caamora wrote:Well said, F&F! As it says in the book, Elena was flawed from birth. I suppose we could only expect her to make poor decisions.

However, since WE can see this, why didn't the lords of the council? Why was she still elected as High Lord? If the answer is, "it was her time" or "it was meant to be" then the lords could not form their own destiny - the future is already mapped out.

I digress.....

Excellent question. My guess is twofold:

-They hoped her experiences with the Ranyhyn gave her something of importance that they, not having had such experiences, could not understand.

-Although they knew her beliefs and theories were unconventional, they had no way of knowing - since nobody imagined getting power anywhere near the level of the Power of Command - just how far she would go with such thoughts.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:44 pm

I think Elena was reasonably skilled, had unique experiences with the Ranyhyn, and displayed great courage. But she had the trump card too; she was the daughter of the Unbeliever. The Lords and lorewardens had to know. Perhaps they hoped she could display some inherited power or at least compel dear old dad to help out. Ironically, Covenant was surprised that Mhoram was not high lord yet.

Post by **Skyweir** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:12 am

i think that was the decider .. i am sure that was identified in TIW as the reason she was chosen ..

she was the ur-Lord's daughter .. and clearly the respect the raynhin showed her dad by visiting with her every year and her wild experience with them .. added to her selectability imho ..

Mhoram knew .. Triock knew .. Lena's family .. it would seem the only one who didnt know was HT ..

And why was Elena flawed from birth .. because of the mixed blood conception? a child born of 2 different realities? or dimensions?

I think she was undoubtedly weird .. but she cops a rough deal really .. she would be painfully aware of her mum's obsessive awe of her biological/legendary dad .. she would be loaded with others expectations or deemed expectations of others on her ..

Clearly she wanted to realise her stated 'prodigious' beginnings .. by becoming the Saviour of the Land .. a little deluded maybe .. but her desire to be a power to defeat Foul was almost palpable ..

to me Elena was a tragic child .. troubled youth .. and misguided - if not a little messed up young woman ..

with a dad not much older than her .. a man that had been idolised by her mother all her life ..

mmm .. a recipe not destined to turn out well ..

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:36 am

I am astounded by my own blindness!!!! I can't believe that the fact that Elena was Covenant's daughter might have had something to do with her being chosen High Lord never entered my mind!!

However, I defy you to find that identified in TIW as the reason.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

The Power of Command

Forestals, Elohim, and White Gold Wielders Oh My!

Power of Command