The "We Love Angus" Thread

[Reisheiruhime]

I am a pervert. Morally wrong.

Ahem. Well?

[Cagliostro]

I found him to be a fantastic character, but I don't think I could be friends with him.

[Cheval]

I like Agnus.
After all, when push comes to shove, I'd like to call him "friend".
(No telling what he'd do to you if he was an enemy!)

His character is one of the very few whom I disliked at first.
But as I got further into the series, I kinda understood where his bitterness came from and why he became the way he was.
(I think it was in TDAGD when he softened up some. What a shame!)

[lurch]

,,Not often do i post in the Gap discussions,,but this thread..?
Like, Turi,,going for the full shock value? First , you use the word " love" in association to Thermo-pyle,,and then glibbly add,,,yea, okay , i'm a pervert..

Being the Space Cowboy that I am,.puts love and Angus out of the question.( theres some irony fer ya).so I tried Morn..could I love her?.....aaaammmm..wouldn't kick her out of bed so to speak,,but uumm..love her.?..no..a Space Cowboy like me finds her too dangerous..gettin all looney everytime Gap Driving and all,,and she has no problem doin away with anything that gets between her and her son..Cut the strings Morn,,and I'm afraid that some of what she suffered has left bruises and contutions so deep that they'll never heal...Lots of baggage,

..Something tells me Angus ain't no different,,so now I'm at your perversion. They both became somewhat heroes. Maybe thats the infatuation. But uumm,, if there is anything life has taught me , its heroes are heroes for committing heroic acts...not for leading outstanding stellar pristine lives. I suspect,,the reality of an "angus" in your life...well..just watch a season of the bull riding cowboys on the outdoor chanel is it..yea, they get all busted up ..for real..for trying to stay with an angus. What I'm trying to say is..i had a co-worker who got into abuse so deep,,that she could only get-off sexually if she was being abused. We knew when she had sex , becuase the next day she came to work with her face all puffed up and make up covering her bruises. I
'll never forgive all the Angus'es who got her to there.
Hopefully you threw the "perverted" in there without ever experiencing it.
...sorry for the turn down,,maybe I'm being too serious..........MEL

[Revan]

Angus was one of the best characters I have ever read about... this is why I like Stephen Donaldson so much; because there are very few people yu can actually call "good guys". Everyone has their own motivations and desires, and go after them. Vile rapists could end up working for the greater good. Or an insane guy with a god complex can end up both helping and damning people by going out in space with only a rifle. The characters are complex. Unlike Jordan's, where the characters might as well be made from cardboard, for all the depth they show.

[bossk]

I think that's why I quit reading during the third book last time, and why I'm still struggling with this series on my second attempt. I have nobody to latch onto and identify with. I don't actually LIKE anyone in the books. And the physical surroundings aren't soothing like the Land. In Covenant, I could probably give you a list of people I actually liked - suffered and died with as they went through the story. In Gap I just don't have that as a motivator, but I do find the setting and craft of the story to be very compelling - but there's no joy in any particular character.

[danlo]

I was always fascinated by what was going on with people off the spaceships like Lane Harbinger, Min (originally), Sixten, and then the interplay of Dios, Hashi and Fasner. Then Mikka and Pup and I was always starved for Vector's opinion on things-perhaps Vector was really my fav character. I couldn't stand Milos, but then again you're not supposed to. I thought that the most interesting characters were the one chisled out in a short time span like Marc, Holt's mom, Dolph, The Bill, Sorus and a few others I can't think of right now. If I had any problems with any character it was, probably Davies--but alot of stuff from the halfway point on couldn't have developed without him (perhaps I'm being too nice to him).

It's almost time for the first reread--but TRS scares me...

[Nathan]

I found I could identify with all the characters, because Donaldson gave you a reason for everything they were doing, and a convincing one. Probably one of the reasons I enjoyed it more than the Chronicles was because I found the characters more convincing.

[Sorus]

While I do feel a certain sympathy for Angus, I can't say I ever loved or even liked the character. I never felt that was it was SRD's intention that he be likeable. Though he did much to redeem himself, I was never able to fully forgive him for his crimes. Nonetheless, he was a very fascinating character, and certainly visceral and complex enough to be all too real.

[duchess of malfi]

Angus was fascinating as a character, but I certainly hope I never meet anyone like him in the real world.

He (with the possible exception of Kennit in Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders series) is probably best written anti-hero I've ever read about (Thomas Covenant started out as an anti-hero, but ended up being a lot more than that...). You can't help but feel sorry for him when you find out what happened to him as a baby -- but, man, is he ever a sick bastard!

Yet, I can't help but hope that someday he escapes the "crib". And by the end of the story he is starting to learn empathy for others, so perhaps he will someday escape his abusive past. While what he does to the dragon's mother could be termed an act of murder by some, to me it was an act of compassion on his part.

[Reisheiruhime]

But... I like him because he's such a psycho sometimes. A model for me, you see. If it weren't for the fact that I... wrote him into some of me fanfic, and he might someday read said fanfic, I'd hope to meet the guy. As it is, terrifying. He was the only character I liked in the whole bloody series. (On a really crap day you'll find me doing impersonations of some of the more memorable, er, mannerisms? Dunno, too early for correct vocabulary.)

Hate everyone else (Warden a bit less, pity pity) but I love Angus. 'E's, er, fun.

And er, Lurch? You have no idea of what I'm capable of. Behind this facade of Eric Clapton and moral purity lurks a... Er... Well, I'm at a loss for what lurks at the moment, suffice it to say that it might make Angus look like Lord Hyrim. (please don't kill me for saying that. 'Twas but a merry jest.) In reality, I'm probably worse than Angus. (What? emotionally torturing people is very theraputic for me. *affronted look*)

Sometimes I think I look a bit like him... 'specially when I first wake up, and I'm craving porridge and saying things like "Gingham!" in abrupt tones. (What is gingham? I think it's blue but I got that out of a Thrusday Next novel, so I don't trust it. Last time I trusted one of those, I ended up thinking Lola Vavoom was a real actress.) Okay, maybe I'm thinking of someone else who I look like...

Y'know, I've been rambling for nearly half an hour, and I don't think that I've gotten one idea accross coherently.

[bossk]

Nothing says sociopathic mass-murderer like Gingham.

Actually, the word "gingham" makes me think of Bill Hicks ever since he used it in his rant about George Bush being like Jack Palance in "Shane".

Damn I miss that guy (Hicks) - I'd love to see what he'd do with Bush part 2.

[amanibhavam]

Actually I can identify with Angus. Most of the time he's driven by fear - fear of pain, fear of loneliness, fear of humiliation - and I can understand that. That does not make his crimes excusable, of course. It only makes them understandable.
It's amazing how Angus can use his fear to his advantage.

[lucimay]

Actually I can identify with Angus. Most of the time he's driven by fear - fear of pain, fear of loneliness, fear of humiliation - and I can understand that. That does not make his crimes excusable, of course. It only makes them understandable.
It's amazing how Angus can use his fear to his advantage.

agree 100%!!! the amazing way Donaldson wrote "the window" into Angus' soul. brilliant character.

[drew]

Do you people mean you Like Anugs, as in would like to meet and crew for him..or just like how his charactor was written.

As far as I'm concerned, as a person, Angus is pretty much the Lord Foul, of the GAP.
Sure he Tries to redeem himself, and does (somewhat)--but he's still not a good person.

[lucimay]

Do you people mean you Like Anugs, as in would like to meet and crew for him..or just like how his charactor was written.

As far as I'm concerned, as a person, Angus is pretty much the Lord Foul, of the GAP.
Sure he Tries to redeem himself, and does (somewhat)--but he's still not a good person.

there's a lot of reasons to love Angus but i'll give you mine.
nobody's perfect.

Angus is not the antagonist in this story...Nick comes way closer to that, but even HE's not the true antagonist. that would be Holt Fasner. if you're looking for Lord Foul in Gap, that would be Holt. Angus is merely an instrument, a tool, much like a Raver, and personally, i thought Angus PREFERABLE to a Raver! but none of these analogies is apt because these are two different stories. i don't find the characters in any way comparable.

I love Angus because i want to believe that wrongs can be righted, that people can be saved, that there IS some sort of redemption for mistakes made. this is Angus' role in the story.

better to find things to like or even LOVE about people than things to dislike or hate them for...don't you think?

disclaimer: (just my opinion, not carved in granite anywhere)

[Loredoctor]

I love Angus because i want to believe that wrongs can be righted, that people can be saved, that there IS some sort of redemption for mistakes made. this is Angus' role in the story.

Angus is great because he tries to redeem himself.

[lucimay]

exactly Loremaster. nail on the head.

[ringwielder]

Ok, i'll resurrect this post to add an opinion.

In essence, Angus was not a malicious character. Having suffered the level of abuse that he endured as a child in the 'crib' it would have been miraculous if he came through that without serious damage to his psyche. After that, his approach to life was to always be the aggressor - only that way (in his mind) could he avoid being a victim ever again.

That he was utterly without scruple or consideration for other human life is without question. But when he captured Morn and inflicted on her the same level of depravity and abuse that he himself had suffered, it caused him to look at her and see himself. Against all his baser impulses he began to feel regret, and all his subsequent choices (what few he had, outside the command of his zone implants) were predicated on a desire to atone for what he had done to her.



As a sidenote, i'd add that an Angus roaming the universe in possession of a state of the art, a**kicking ship and welded to the hilt with zone implants and hidden lasers etc is whole lot less dangerous than the Angus we met at the start of the series. Psychologically, he need never fear being made a victim ever again, and in that way he knows he is permanently free of the crib.

[Loredoctor]

Excellent post, ringwielder.