Animated or Live-action?

[Variol Farseer]

Bear in mind, we are fast approaching the point at which 'live action' means that there are a few live actors saying their lines in front of green screens, and all the rest is CGI.

[Loredoctor]

Animation is crap.

Look no further than the "Clone Wars" shows for evidence.

Live Action only or don't do it at all.

Well, they'll still have to use CGI for most of the world.

[bossk]

The brilliant, startlingly beautiful, experimental technique that Ralph Bakshi used for LOTR would be absolutely perfect for TC.

Live action, overlayed with painted animation... what could possibly be better than that?

The main problem I would have with that approach is the "Is the Land real?" fight that Covenant has in his head. I think you'd have to make it real enough to the viewer that they have no doubt, even if TC does. If I'm seeing animation, I'm thinking - "Nope, not real - next!"

[Variol Farseer]

The main problem I would have with that approach is the "Is the Land real?" fight that Covenant has in his head. I think you'd have to make it real enough to the viewer that they have no doubt, even if TC does. If I'm seeing animation, I'm thinking - "Nope, not real - next!"

After seeing Cool World, I think you're right. Realistically, any 2D animation process is a tough sell for feature films right now. Hollywood has decided that if it isn't CG, the kiddies won't watch (or their parents won't pay their admission).

Since there are bound to be massive wodges of CG anyway (for things like ur-viles, Giants, Lordsfire, you name it), I'd rather have the CG playing off live actors rather than 3D cartoon images. A lot of the characters would be best done by a version of the Gollum process, with the movements mapped to a real actor in a mocap suit. If they get to the point of adding mocap masks to capture facial expressions (no reason why they shouldn't), the process could become amazingly subtle and realistic. Gollum's facial expressions were his weakest point.

(Does Drool Rockworm look rather like Gollum after years of steroid abuse, or is it just me?)

[Lord Defile]

Gollum was a deformed non-human. Facial expressions for other races are open to interpretation, are they not? So it doesn't really matter what they looked like especially since Smeagol was the comic relief character for the movie.

He probably was similar to Drool. I don't know about anyone else but i've noticed alot of things that are similar to the Lord of the Rings in the Chronicles.

[matrixman]

Oh no...please, please, let's not start a heated LOTR vs. TCTC debate in this thread. (I think there are already several Donaldson/Tolkien debate threads around the Watch if you'd like to check 'em out, Lord Defile.)

Bear in mind, we are fast approaching the point at which 'live action' means that there are a few live actors saying their lines in front of green screens, and all the rest is CGI.

Yes, and George Lucas has pushed that way of filmmaking further along than anyone else with the SW prequels. The CG worlds created in the prequels already look fairly real to my eyes. If and when the Land ever comes to be created for a movie, CGI technology may be so refined by then that we'll be hard-pressed to distinguish between what is real and what is illusion...which somehow is kind of fitting, as that is the kind of dilemma Thomas Covenant faces in the Land.

[Variol Farseer]

I certainly didn't mean to start any LOTR vs. TCTC stuff; only to point out that the kind of technology Peter Jackson used for Gollum would be amazingly useful in a live-action/CG film of the Chrons. And by the time anyone gets round to it, it will be even more advanced — mocap facemasks, as I mentioned, being one possible improvement.

[matrixman]

Actually, it was Lord Defile's line that spooked me:

I don't know about anyone else but i've noticed alot of things that are similar to the Lord of the Rings in the Chronicles.

This is how it usually begins. But I'm not telling anyone what to say in their posts, by any means. I just turn a deaf ear when the yelling matches start.

[wayfriend]

Actually, it was Lord Defile's line that spooked me:

I don't know about anyone else but i've noticed alot of things that are similar to the Lord of the Rings in the Chronicles.

This is how it usually begins. But I'm not telling anyone what to say in their posts, by any means. I just turn a deaf ear when the yelling matches start.

Yeah. And besides, LOTR is a just a rip off of Star Wars!

[Lord Defile]

Sorry Matrix. It wasn't my intention to start anything like that. But i would just like to point out that LOTR came before SW if i remember correctly. Plz start a new thread on storyline similarities if you would like to take this further, Wayfriend. I'd be happy to join if you did.

[wayfriend]

Plz start a new thread on storyline similarities if you would like to take this further, Wayfriend. I'd be happy to join if you did.

T'was only kidding, m'lord. It is a old and tired troll, which I thought was known to all.

[Lord Defile]

Thou art forgiven.

[matrixman]

Aargh, is Wayfriend getting me into trouble? I deny ever having made any unfavorable comparisons between Star Wars and LOTR during my stay at the Watch!

[Reave the Unjust]

In a "welcome to last year" moment I have just found this thread.
I've been thinking the same thing only today.

Idea 1: The whole thing is live action with as little(!!??!!) CGI as possible. The main problem is the plethora of creatures and fantastic landscapes which cannot be made in a workshop or filmed in exotic locations in the real world.
For example the Ranyhyn could not be just real horses. They would have to stand out from the common steeds, and live up to SRD's description.
Which leads me to the health sense that is written so well in the book, but cannot be shown very easily on screen.

Idea 2: Everything animated (either CGI or anime). My initial reaction is that it would make the story seem less real and the humanity would be lost a little, but if it was done well (see Spirited Away, Animatrix etc.) this may not be an issue. This gets around the fantasy animals and locations problem. The health sense is still a little problematic.

Idea 3: Making Covenant's world "Real" and The Land "Not-real" (ie. animated) may seem a dangerous risk as this undermines a core concept of the books (is the Land real/delusion). However, if done well it could illustrate the health sense issue very well. It could be made to look so alive it makes TC's world seem bland and desolate.

Idea 4: Why not a TV series, or even a Graphic Novel?!?!? Actually, I'm starting to get why Mr. Donaldson has gone off the whole idea!

[Loredoctor]

Idea 4 - graphic novel - is great.

[Reave the Unjust]

Started thinking more about it too!
Still word-based, but visual as well!
I'm all excited now!

So that would be about 200+ pages per book, plus full page maps and landscapes. Then fitting the action in with the text.....
A hell of a lot of good artwork needed.......

Sounds like almost as much work as a movie!

Ah ha! Could do Gilden Fire and see how it pans out!

Any volunteers? Hello? Anyone?

(sound of wind blowing tumbleweed through a deserted village)

[Nerdanel]

I think it should be: the Land - real (bright/deep colors) and the "real world" - not real (washed-out colors).

Anyway, I'm in the live-action camp. I think the beauty of the natural things of the Land is realizable with normal filming tricks like colors, music, and camera angles. One just needs to get creative. Even Ranyhyn are basically horses and can be played by such. (If you think they aren't, what would you change from the horse look?) I remember seeing a Finnish film that would probably be ridiculously small budget by Hollywood standards and thinking that the filming style was easily Land-worthy with its rich, glowing colors. The colors made what might have been a fairly ordinary garden look like something from a storybook.

[wayfriend]

On the other hand, if it was entirely CGI, and all the characters were talking animals, it'd be a lock!

So all the characters in the Land are talking animals. Suddenly, a human from another world, one where only people talk, is summoned to their world. He must save or damn the forest. Hilarity ensues.

We need a whiney giraffe ... that'd be Mhoram. The Bloodguard would be some sort of ninja animals ... penguins were done ... possums were done ... chameleons, done ... ooh ooh they can be ninja squirrels!

[theDespiser]

id love to see an animated series of movies...done in the Miyazaki style...but i doubt him, or studio gibli( anime), would do somethin this extreme...


i think with what we can do with CGI nowadays, there should be no problem with bringing it to life...but...on the other had...is mainstream cinema ready for somethin like this?

[Sunbaneglasses]

Animation would be cool if well done.A combo of traditional animation,cgi,and vague live action overlays would be cool.The only way to pull it off would be to have a panel of Kevins Watch members as directors with the power to approve or veto ANYTHING.